Cabeceo and Other "Rules"

[Tango Distance]

So what I've been reading, codigos (and etiquette) are hit-and-miss in many cities and countries, which in my mind puts tango in the same light as dance clubs where just about anything goes.

That's extreme. I have never seen a fight break out at a Tango event. I have never seen bouncers have to physically throw someone out. I have never seen a man sloppy drunk (I have seen ladies, but without harmful consequences to the event that I could see. Men are too busy dancing.). I have not seen men forcefully drag women onto the dance floor. Cabeceo works great for me. The Ronda generally works well. I have seen my state's Tango club ban a misbehaving person from all of that area's events. Unless they are romantically involved, generally two people don't dance a bunch of tandas together. People catch on quickly to the tanda system. Men and women dress up. I have been to milongas in other states and even foreign countries, and part of the fun is Tango is similar, and it's fun you don't even have to speak the local language -- you could argue that is some level of common codigos and etiquette.

 

[Gssh]

So what I've been reading, codigos (and etiquette) are hit-and-miss in many cities and countries, which in my mind puts tango in the same light as dance clubs where just about anything goes.

I would say it is general more hit than miss - similar to tango distance i have danced all over world, and cabeceo usually works, LOD is universally accepted, floorcraft is functional. I think we remember bad actors/people who violate etiquette without consequences more than all the people who do it well. Like all good manners it is invisible if it works well.

I would say that danceclubs actually have actually a quite specific etiquette, it is just more implicit. There is always a dresscode+accepted style of dancing, a lot of places have set spots where the girls circles form, where they guys hang out, where genders mix, everybody knows pretty precisely just how drunk/how much of a nuisance one can make of themselves on the dancefloor, and so on.
I think one of the consequences of social dance moving from being mass entertainment to niche hobby is that it is switching from peers enforcing implicit rules to written down rules that get more or less effectively appealed to. As i told before, part of floorcraft advice i got from really old school dancers was to drive annoying people off the dancefloor.

 

[Brummbaer]

in the same light as dance clubs where just about anything goes.

You can certainly go to some dive you choose where just about anything goes, because that's what the punters there accept and expect, i.e. their own rules. But in other places some behaviours will not be tolerated.

You seem to expect a list of specifics which, although unwritten and poorly communicated, everyone knows. And then to have an all-powerful Enforcer to keep order. The Ten Commandments and God spring to mind. And how many have we kept as a society? But people generally know the behaviour expected in a venue.

Is your cultural etiquette in the US accepted as normal polite behaviour in Asia or Europe, and vice-versa?

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Per dance etiquettes in any social dance it is consider rude or disrespectful to give an excuse not to dance when asked but go ahead and dance the same song/tanda when another person asks.

Especially when it's done in front of the person they've just turned down. Yes, that's not cool.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

I suppose when AT came to Europe in the early 20th century then it acquired some 'ballroom codigos' for the society and period.

Tango was danced very differently in Europe at the time. There were no milongas to speak of, no ronda. There were afternoon "tea dances" and exhibitions. From all I've read, the codigos that we know of today, originated in B.A. (they are not Argentinian) and, probably, Montevideo. Many of them are practical, and the rest largely address etiquette and behavior on the dance floor. Frankly, there aren't that many of them. It's pretty basic stuff.

 

[Rabbit]

So, when I opine about tango here, I'm implicitly inclusive of tango nuevo and tango escenario, supportive of blending balletic and other movements into tango, favorable toward post-época de oro music (notably that of the 1950s and 1960s), and indifferent to supposedly "traditional" terms and movements. The only code that matters to me is "do no harm on the dance floor," and that refers to physical harm . . . I don't believe that ordinary social dancers are capable of "cultural harm," and don't really believe in "aesthetic harm" at all. When average dancers complain about cultural or aesthetic harm, I roll my eyes and think "Heh, another one who's more Argentine than Argentines!"

Well... there are more Argentinians at the "alternative" milonga here than any of the "traditional" ones.

 

[Reuven Thetanguero]

Being former military, and currently a 'professional' (high school) baseball umpire, I learn the 'rules' for anything I do, and knew there are rules and etiquette in tango that I needed to learn and understand. So back when I embarked on learning tango, I studied the rules and etiquette before my first beginner lesson.

I have done my research to understand those rules and the etiquette so not to over-step any of boundaries or make a fool of myself. What I'm finding is, the rules for cabeceo seem to be a little 'relaxed' and don't appear to be as strict as they are in BA or other tango communities and it seems there's a mix of cabeceo and outright 'asking' someone verbally to dance.

One of the other 'unwritten rules' I saw was about arriving at the milonga and how the first and last tanda are (generally) reserved for couples, which I believe are good, but something my very experienced GF didn't seem to know about, along with a few regarding the cabeceo, which I found quite odd.

We attended a milonga a couple months ago and my GF danced the last tanda (before we left) with an old friend who she has known for many years. It wasn't an issue for me because I have befriended this leader, but I casually mentioned that I thought the 'first and last tanda' were reserved for couples, and she said she never heard of that rule.

Then we attended a 'special milonga' the end of last month (with 'live' music) at a studio that's not our 'home' and the host, who's also another old friend of my GF, came by before she and I danced our first tanda and he actually asked permission from me to dance with my GF. To be cordial to this host, I said 'okay' (but with a smile told him I understood the 'first and last tanda' rule, since he clearly indicated in his invitations that codigo's will be enforced). Again, later I mentioned this to my GF and she said she never heard of that before.

This past New Years weekend was a pretty big tango festivilito hosted by our local (home) studio here in San Diego (as it is every year). Friday (NYE) was a big milonga that we didn't attend due to limited space because it wasn't held at the usual venue (local hotel), but Saturday and Sunday we attended an intermediate/adv class, followed by a milonga. After the class on Saturday (New Years Day), we went upstairs to the studio, which already had a lot of dancers, and we had to find a place to sit and put our stuff. Since it was crowded, I told my GF I'd run out to my car (which was parked right outside the back door to the studio) and lock the things we didn't need inside. It was a quick trip, but I ran into our host and proceeded to 'pay' her for the weekend of tango (lessons and milonga) for me and my GF, which only took a about 5 or so minutes.

When I walked back into the studio, my GF was already out on the dance floor dancing with some (unknown) out-of-town leader. She finished the tanda, and when she returned to where we were seated, I mentioned the 'first and last tanda' thing again, and she said it took me too long, and that she already turned down 2 other requests (before finally saying 'yes').

Apparently, this leader actually sat down next to her while I was gone, was talking to another lady to his right, then turned to my GF sitting on his left and verbally asked her to dance, which she felt obligated to do since she didn't want to come off as a tango snob. I told her that for him to corner her, and verbally 'ask' was something he shouldn't be doing. I also mentioned that she should have told him (and the others) that she was waiting for me.

So, a couple things of note; First, I'm still unclear about this 'first and last tanda' rule, which I believe should be in place, and if so well understood by my GF, and whether it's genuine. And secondly, that she made a big error on the use (or failure to use) the cabeceo by that rude leader.

As for the first 'rule', she and I had a discussed it, and she passed it off (again). Her reaction was, that she'd be 'okay' if things were turned around (me dancing a first tanda with another follower before dancing with her), something I'm going to want clarified with her going forward.

My gut tells me this was her just being defensive or making excuses, and really wouldn't want me dancing first and last with another follower. I also said I didn't think I had to be on-my-guard when we walk into a milonga to 'keep the hounds at bay' until we danced (broken the ice). Her response was for "us to communicate" (in the future). And my response was; I didn't think I had to communicate that to her, and I wouldn't do those things to her, and briefly told her she did a disservice to the two she turned down before dancing with that leader.

As for the second issue about turning down two other leaders, then accepting one from that other leader, from what I've read, out of respect to the guys she turned down, she should have been 'out-of-commission' for the rest of the tanda. I always encourage my GF to dance with others in milongas (after we danced first), but dancing the first tanda of 2022 with a stranger was disappointing, disrespectful, and I told her so.

Am I correct on any of this or am I being unreasonable?

You are confusing two different kinds of rules: the rules of behavior on the dancing floor (Miradas, Cabaceos, Rondas et.) and your own dynamics as a couple. The "rule" of first and last tanda is not a rule. It's a custom that many couples have adopted as their personal decision. Many other couples do not follow this practice, since it's not a behavior/social rule. This "rule" has to do with the dynamics of your relationship.

In my opinion, the two of you have to negotiate and decide together how you want to conduct yourselves in a Milonga. It's personal, not a public rule.

 

[opendoor]

So what I've been reading, codigos ..are hit-and-miss ..in the same light as dance clubs where ..anything goes.

Hi Tango Newbie, codigos and étiquette are examples of the intention of self-limitation and self-control. Trade regulations and public safety rules apply in night clubs.
My standard is the reflected and responsible citizen, but not the uncontrolled herd animal without drive control.
I feel good in the tango community and have only found like-minded people there (Europe). I haven't been to the US yet, but I've talked long and often with Homer Ladas (SF), who often came to Germany to teach. He thinks like me, too.

 

[Bailango]

Don't get me started on the poor standard of tango DJs.

Moot point since I thought the discussion is about how much codigas are followed at a milonga.

 

[Bailango]

Yeah, we went around on this at least once before in the past. I forget where, because we're terrible for staying on-topic here.

But the short version is that military, law-enforcement, top-tier corporate, scholastic, and STEM occupations seem to lean away from accepting relationships at work . . .

That’s correct. There are many work places where there is a professional code regarding work place romances. Among the corporates I have worked at there always were codes on how inter-office romance would be handled or not encouraged. The primary concern is that it should not spill into work environment or impact other colleagues. That concern includes situation that may arise from break-up, potential for abuse of power, power dynamics between the people involved in inter-office romance, perceived favoritism, etc. Last thing bosses or HR want to get involved into sorting out. In short, a version of codigas to make sure work place romance doesn’t become toxic.

 

[Bailango]

IMO, it is rude if you give an excuse and then dance in a way that shows you lied with your excuse. But it's not rude if you just decline, or decline with an excuse that still leaves open the possibility of dancing (e.g., "sorry, I promised I'd try to find my friend for this dance").

This is just an extension of a more general idea that it's rude to lie blatantly.

That’s the reason my choice of word was excuse not rejection. You put it well what I meant. Thanks.

I would exactly claim that for myself. But I also explain why I decline: you would push me off the axis and that hurts, or in the case of voluminous followers, it would tense my neck and shoulders. I will no longer be able to feel my fingertips tomorrow. These women get annoyed, of course, but anger is better than to live a life in ignorance.

That is not an excuse. You or anyone else is within their right to refuse any dance which can be harmful to them.

 

[Bailango]

So what I've been reading, codigos (and etiquette) are hit-and-miss in many cities and countries, which in my mind puts tango in the same light as dance clubs where just about anything goes.

That isn’t my experience dancing in many parts around the world at local milongas. For example Cabaceo is almost universally understood. Line of dance etiquettes are generally followed and by extension people do pay attention to floorcraft. In practical experience I see more uniformity in real life tango dancing than what gets expressed on here. I attribute it to discussion and viewpoints that go into nuances and personal opinions.

 

[Bailango]

It is difficult to make general statements about this. I learned to dance in Hamburg. My first destination was Berlin (the city with the world's second largest tango scene at that time). Then I danced in Spain, France, Italy, Baltic states. The cabeceo was never used, and in many cases it was not understood. The LOD was everywhere, but no imaginery lanes on the dance floor. We could pull out and overtake, and also dance wide figures. Unlike today, I remember no bloody injuries, although everyone led high boleos back then. The dance floor was more crowded but the floorcraft better, although no signs with the codigos were put up.
The codigos were first claimed by the Argentinians. Not because they brought them with them from their homeland (most argentinians learned tango abroad), no, just to bring the tango back under national control. I know so many conservative minded Argentinians who claim to have cut their teeth into tango but actually had learned this dance in Europe. However, no one could remember it in public. Even the Argentine vice-consul could not.

My experience when I started Tango was the opposite. All the beginners were made aware of cabaceo (also taught it explicitly during dance lessons), importance of LOD and floorcraft, how to dance when floor is crowded and LOD suffered traffic jam, beginners inexperience with LOD were expected to dance in inner lane or center. Anyone wanting to do neuvo type moves was also expected to dance in the center. No overtaking, no zigzag. I guess it is naive for me to assume this is how everyone learned tango . Reminds me of a gentleman at a milonga in Paris. Good dancer in terms of wide flashy figures and skills to do them but terrible floorcraft. I was astounded someone would dance so rudely in an extremely crowded milonga. I thought he would hurt someone. Sure enough, an hour I was there, he twice hit another couple, almost injured his follower and causes other to trip.

 

[JournalInTime]

Last thing bosses or HR want to get involved into sorting out.

Yes.

I don't talk about it much here, but: My SO – partner in life and dance – is an HR director. She has had to work from home since March 2020. Consequently, I am now far, far, FAR more aware of this kind of stuff than I ever was before . . . and probably more aware of it than most people are or ever will be.

To sum up: HR works hard to discourage romances at work, keep those that happen under control, and do their best to hide that it happens all the time, everywhere. Spin control occupies a very large HR mindshare indeed. Anybody who believes that romances at work don't happen – when they do, daily – has their HR department to thank for their perception.

 

[Bailango]

Yes.

To sum up: HR works hard to discourage romances at work, keep those that happen under control, and do their best to hide that it happens all the time, everywhere. Spin control occupies a very large HR mindshare indeed. Anybody who believes that romances at work don't happen – when they do, daily – has their HR department to thank for their perception.

Very well put. The challenge for HR is to be perceived as being fair to everyone. That is a very tough balancing act. All you need is one squeaky wheel to make life difficult.