How I've always seen it done is that the venue is booked for, say, 4 hours and the event is advertised as running for 3 and a half
Cabeceo and Other "Rules"
- Thread starter Gssh
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How I've always seen it done is that the venue is booked for, say, 4 hours and the event is advertised as running for 3 and a half
JournalInTime
Forum Master
Works well when it's 3.5/4 (88%) used for the event; works less well when it's 1/1.5 (67%) or 1.5/2 (75%). The less time for dancing, the less the dancers are willing to pay, so they aren't going to help pay for a very large margin of waste (from their viewpoint). Booking for longer is a solution, but only if you have enough people to pay what that costs. It isn't nearly as clear as it seems at first.
Some rental venues are good about saying rental time is floor time, so your people can overlap the previous and next event's people in the cloakroom as long as they're not on the dance floor or making a lot of noise. We were lucky to find someone like that, but their patience had limits, and some of our attendees really pushed the limits, hanging around a good 30 minutes at the door and keeping us from leaving.
Honestly, I find tango people surprisingly disrespectful of schedules. Salsa people at the same venue showed up, changed, danced, and left with near-military timing; it's like they recognized $X bought Y hours. Tango people fiddled with shoes forever, asked who was going to what milonga later, and generally buzzed around for a really long time. I'm not sure why that's part of tango culture.
4 hours would really push up the costs and time commitment without any additional benefits . The same people would show up at 21:45 and chat until 22:30 whether the time was 20:00 to 22:00 or 18:00 to 22:00. And they’d want free entry since “it’s nearly over”. In fact we’d be looking at an empty hall for those first two hours. Tango people like to eat their dinner and change before dance.
That used to happen. We once dance at a milonga in a closed restaurant in the Netherlands, but no idea how it was funded. There are no free lunches now. Those hospitality venues are desperate for income. Similarly so-called 'community' venues. I have seen a swing dance evening at a London eating venue whilst dining, which appeared free for dancers whilst a live band played. More providing entertainment and filling the space I suspect.
A local charity has a dance studio in a building they've acquired for community use. Nice floor, mirrors, sound system. I enquired about renting it for practice, but decided we'd manage with the dance mat and limited space. So, it's not used for 'community', but rented out as rehearsal space to a broadcaster.
Another local organisation is trying to raise funding to extend the local school dance facilities. The only problem is that it's looking at 'performance' events with audiences, or maybe yoga. No interest in 'social dance', unless you can pay a lot.
We also have a lot of empty space in towns as businesses, shops and banks have closed. Regeneration for the community thinking seems to be about getting shops back.
I understand the economics of providing the space and work involved, even an outside event. The labourers do deserve their wages - an appropriate income for their work and capital risk. Nevertheless the event also has to be affordable to attendees. Current expense hikes for energy, etc, are likely to impact spare money for leisure pursuits.
You. don't tell them that! They just get their 3 hours.
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
Oh, yeah, you can't get by charging those rates. Entrance fees here nearly doubled in the past year for just about everything except classes and workshops (but there haven't been that many of them until recently). We're way beyond those prices at practicas and milongas. Practicas used to be $10-12, now they're $15-20.
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
When it was done here, the restaurant (it was usually at a restaurant with space to dance) expected people to order food and drinks. There was also a cover charge, of course, which went to the organizers.
As @Brummbaer said earlier cost of living has gone up too! If a household budget needs trimming then dance is the
There’s a legacy of undercharging across all the social dances and while Salsa etc can sustain low pricing with larger numbers and free Latin nights (basically there’s a live band in a pub with a lot of drink sold). Tango cannot.
In order to survive tango needs an opportunity to dance socially that is both low cost and accessible. So in my mind that’s a practica/ practilonga where anyone can dance irrespective of experience and without the, sometimes intimidating, formality of a milonga.
There’s a legacy of undercharging across all the social dances and while Salsa etc can sustain low pricing with larger numbers and free Latin nights (basically there’s a live band in a pub with a lot of drink sold). Tango cannot.
In order to survive tango needs an opportunity to dance socially that is both low cost and accessible. So in my mind that’s a practica/ practilonga where anyone can dance irrespective of experience and without the, sometimes intimidating, formality of a milonga.
I checked back re the restaurant in the Netherlands. It was a Sunday night and the restaurant was closed for serving. It had been open earlier in the day when we checked the location, but guess it wasn't worthwhile opening for food. Seem to remember paying for entrance.
Also managed a practilonga in a pub in Ireland. The tango organisation just got the use of the space on one side; regulars on the other side of the bar.
London location for Swing is a relatively upmarket club/hotel/restaurant (Google will find it). Live music. It is free for dancers. I guess it provides a floor show for diners. Seem to remember seeing something similar a few years ago for AT.
Prices sound similar just taking €1 = £1. Of course the consequential inflation will hit everything as people, including teachers and other providers, seek to keep pace - and some will be priced out.
Out of interest, anybody know what a night out dancing costs in BsAs (ignoring the tourist traps)? Despite hyperinflation years ago, they seemed to keep going for locals. It's become unfashionable to have a pub/bar as a social centre. Attractions of TV, problems driving, costs. Many have tried to become gastropubs. I can't see what I imagine to be the cheap(?) milonga in BsAs becoming a feature in Europe, but maybe it becomes cheaper to go out rather than to stay in and heat the home, especially if you're single in a big city.
JournalInTime
Forum Master
One thing I often ponder is how we have most walks of life in tango. At least around here, there are dancers who – in their lives outside tango – have the deeds and keys to places large enough and suitable enough for milongas. They're not employers or managers, but owners. Yet they don't ever talk about the possibility . . . and often, it's less about resistance than obliviousness.
I wonder if there's any polite way to nudge them to volunteer?
Are you talking about businesses or homes?
Oh that’s where one of my imaginary partners comes in! He’s gregarious and outgoing and has a way of implanting ideas A perfect foil to my behind-the-scenes persona.
I actually already know one of these guys but it remains to be seen who’s left post-pandemic. I was not dancing much tango for a few years then the pandemic hit just as I was re-joining. I’d need a few months to a year to re-establish myself as a ringleader and viable alternative hostess. If that’s even what’s needed in our city. Maybe everyone is happy with the status quo and I’m the one out of step.
I know I’m thinking business premises. Hotels, pubs, gyms, community centres, scout dens, sports clubhouses, cafe’s, restaurants and other business premises with a suitable lobby or meeting room. The same places that are used for yoga and table quizzes. Plus educational institutes and training centres.
I’ve gone to or run dances in all kinds of places - night clubs are good as they don’t open before 11 but they’re also filthy and smelly. Weirdly they’re the most likely to ask you for your own insurance. So even when they don’t charge they cost more!
Pie in the sky for the foreseeable as they’ve been devastated by lockdowns, closures and staff shortages
JournalInTime
Forum Master
I meant businesses. I have no idea if anybody has a home large enough, but I wouldn't ever suggest that!