Cabeceo and Other "Rules"

I love the internet. I get to hear about other peoples problems that I never even knew existed and be glad i dont have them. :) Here it is usual to have a milonga on a weekday in a cafe or a pub. Business is slow anyway so if every dancer buys a drink, the establishment is already making more money than they would anyway. Also, this insurance you keep mentioning in the expenses, i would be really surprised if that was a thing here. People in the community pitch in. A dancer has keys to a museum/ culture hub, another has a studio space they are renting but since it is theirs they can use it for tango events, another person has a large apartment... bring your own drinks and keep dancing. :) If there is an entrance fee, it is a very symbolic amount.

And i have to say that since the pandemic started i havent been traveling, but as far as i can remember, i think the most i paid for for a regular milonga was maybe around 10e and that was on the expensive side of things. Most of the time, the ticket was under 10e, + whatever drinks you would buy.
 
Cabbit said:
Here it is usual to have a milonga on a weekday in a cafe or a pub. Business is slow anyway so if every dancer buys a drink, the establishment is already making more money than they would anyway.
Click to expand...
Sometimes this is true but usually it’s not. Dancers are not drinkers. Tango music can be polarising and tango dancers can be a picky bunch! One of our dancers organised a practilonga in a restaurant but it was short-lived for various reasons. One of the reasons was that the floor was textured concrete and wrecked expensive shoes another was that people were still eating when it began. The dancers didn’t like the free venue!

There’s also the dancing in public aspect that many dancers find intimidating and isn’t really an ideal place to practice and try things out. A dedicated room with a good floor is better.

EDIT: a venue that’s usually empty on a weeknight is a venue in danger of closing or being sold!
 
Last edited:
Tangogal said:
EDIT: a venue that’s usually empty on a weeknight is a venue in danger of closing or being sold!
Click to expand...

There are plenty of cafes in town centres that don't normally open in the evening though.

On the subject of music i think if there is dancing in a public space where random people are also eating or otherwise spending time,, the DJ should really be playing music with them in mind as well
 
Rabbit said:
There are plenty of cafes in town centres that don't normally open in the evening though.

On the subject of music i think if there is dancing in a public space where random people are also eating or otherwise spending time,, the DJ should really be playing music with them in mind as well
Click to expand...
Definitely! They should be playing Tango’s greatest hits at a volume that’s not intrusive to diners away from the “floor”.

Cafes may not have insurance to cover dancing and they may not appreciate moving the furniture about. - All of which the “practica team” would have to take care of as well as securing the till and any food/drinks that could be stolen. I know of one café where the owners are dancers themselves and they keep it open in the evenings while various dance styles hold classes and socials. Might not have survived the last two years. I’m sure dancers would buy a coffee and a cake if such a cafe opened here!

I might open something like that myself when I win the lottery- hire a good manager or buy a franchise for the café part. Get in good baristas and college students to staff evenings. then swan about in eccentric garb as a patron of the Arts

profits not essential ;)
 
Tangogal said:
Cafes may not have insurance to cover dancing and they may not appreciate moving the furniture about. - All of which the “practica team” would have to take care of as well as securing the till and any food/drinks that could be stolen. I know of one café where the owners are dancers themselves and they keep it open in the evenings while various dance styles hold classes and socials. Might not have survived the last two years. I’m sure dancers would buy a coffee and a cake if such a cafe opened here!
Click to expand...

I'm sure there must be a legitimate business opportunity in designing spaces for dual use though as there's so much commercial space that opens either only during the day or only at night, and therefore wastes a lot of time where it could be making money. (why have just a cafe or bar when you could combine both in one place, for example)
 
Rabbit said:
There are plenty of cafes in town centres that don't normally open in the evening..
Click to expand...
During my tango life I have only experienced three times that cafes or wine bars opened in the evening for tango events. And every time these events were canceled after three or four times. I never understood why. As far as I can remember, however, there was always an owner or an employee present. The personnel costs were probably too high. In my hometown, mostly poor people dance tango. In my early tango days, I too snuck unseen into the milongas and drank tap water in the washroom. On the other hand, we now have tango matinees with a dinner show. More money is made there, but unfortunately not from good dancers, mostly non-dancers.
 
Brummbaer said:
Out of interest, anybody know what a night out dancing costs in BsAs (ignoring the tourist traps)? Despite hyperinflation years ago, they seemed to keep going for locals. It's become unfashionable to have a pub/bar as a social centre. Attractions of TV, problems driving, costs. Many have tried to become gastropubs. I can't see what I imagine to be the cheap(?) milonga in BsAs becoming a feature in Europe, but maybe it becomes cheaper to go out rather than to stay in and heat the home, especially if you're single in a big city.
Click to expand...
In 2019 they were pretty cheap. They were part of the experience I signed up for, so I didn't pay separately, but I'm sure they were less than $5. But as discussed about salsa in this thread, they have a lot of volume. Tables were packed as close together as possible and the floor was filled almost every tanda. I only saw one exit in at least one of them and that size crowd would have been a disaster if there was a fire.

We did have milongas at three people's houses last year. I can't remember how widely they were publicized but we had a fair attendance considering how small the community here is.
 
opendoor said:
During my tango life I have only experienced three times that cafes or wine bars opened in the evening for tango events. And every time these events were canceled after three or four times. I never understood why. As far as I can remember, however, there was always an owner or an employee present. The personnel costs were probably too high. In my hometown, mostly poor people dance tango. In my early tango days, I too snuck unseen into the milongas and drank tap water in the washroom. On the other hand, we now have tango matinees with a dinner show. More money is made there, but unfortunately not from good dancers, mostly non-dancers.
Click to expand...
Unseen costs include energy, water rates, wear and tear and additional insurance premiums. Licensing laws vary from place to place too so an eating place may not be licensed as an activity/entertainment place and may not have a broadcasting license to play music.

There are other obvious costs like toilet paper and glassware but essentially it boils down to if dancers are not paying to dance then somebody else is footing the bill! If 20 dancers don’t provide enough sales to cover the additional costs then the evening cannot be sustained in that format.
 
Rabbit said:
I'm sure there must be a legitimate business opportunity in designing spaces for dual use though as there's so much commercial space that opens either only during the day or only at night, and therefore wastes a lot of time where it could be making money. (why have just a cafe or bar when you could combine both in one place, for example)
Click to expand...
Mostly doesn't work here. The one that does work is dancehall/bar, as long as it's a nightclub; that goes over well for salsa, but several shots at doing it for tango have fallen flat. However, trying to combine things is generally unsuccessful.

It may be because culturally, people here are exceptionally fond of the ritual of "before-dinner drink at one place, dinner at another place, (sometimes dessert at a third place), (sometimes after-dinner drinks at yet a fourth place), dancing at a further place, (sometimes after-dancing drinks at yet another place)." Combining spaces seems to extinguish the desire to do any of it. I've done it myself . . . a group of people taking turns picking up taxi fares and drink bills. The travel between establishments is a big part of the experience.

Cafés are another matter. They're frequented during daylight hours. After dark, the only "cafés" that do much business are chains that serve taxi drivers, truck drivers, police, and hungover bargoers. So, you'd have to convince people to dance in the afternoon, which is also something that usually fails, or convince cafés to stay open late, which would involve a lot of money for staff.

I don't know . . . I think the event spaces that would work best would be the ones that (1) have big floors suited to dancing, (2) sound systems, (3) no full-time staff, and (4) no tenants in the evening. Those do exist. They're mostly community centers like "the Italian house" and "the Spain club," and people have made milongas work there. But they're not reliably free the same night every week, which seems to be a kiss of death for tango around here.

Summary: Tango isn't a big enough deal to make a city change its social habits or convince merchants to take risks on it.
 
Tangogal said:
Unseen costs include energy, water rates, wear and tear and additional insurance premiums. Licensing laws vary from place to place too so an eating place may not be licensed as an activity/entertainment place and may not have a broadcasting license to play music.
Click to expand...
The big ones here are a liquor permit (a huge expense), liability insurance, and fire inspection. If your place can serve alcohol legally, cover its injury risks, and confirm it isn't a deathtrap, it can usually do whatever it likes otherwise. The obsession in North American society is with controlling liquor and minimizing risk of grievous injury. Music in particular is a lark . . . DJs can and do play completely pirated music wherever and whenever they like, and there's zero care or enforcement.
 
David_In_CA said:
Are you talking about businesses or homes?
Click to expand...
To expand: Several people I know of in tango are owners of boutique hotels, studios, or (to get all rave-y) warehouses, and there are also presidents of various community centers and similar nonprofits. But they seem not to be interested. I can understand . . . they want to keep their pastime (tango) separate from work.

An important exception is the military: I've danced at tango events at not one, not two, but three separate regimental armories. Commissioned officers above the rank of captain (majors, colonels, et al.) seem to be able to swing that quite easily. It's just that they're competing with a lot of other officers and their junkets.
 
Tangogal said:
Sometimes this is true but usually it’s not. Dancers are not drinkers.
Click to expand...
Tango dancers are close to being anti-drinkers. Working the tango bar in several contexts, let's say that I've never been slammed for alcohol orders, only for orders for bottled water. One organizer had me inventing theme cocktails . . . the three people who tried them loved them, but it was really a big waste of effort.
Tangogal said:
One of our dancers organised a practilonga in a restaurant but it was short-lived for various reasons.
Click to expand...
There's a popular Argentine restaurant here that was happy to invite in tango events. The organizers of the events were happy to try. It flopped. There seems to be a psychological aversion to eating and dancing in the same place.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Dance Ads

Advertise on Dance Forums Reach dancers, teachers, studios, event organizers, and dance-friendly brands. View ad options
Back
Top