Cadencia, or lack of...

[dchester]

Surely that's just dissociation by another name?

It's not this mythical "cadencia" stuff.

I would say no. Contra-Body Movement may involve using disassociation, but that doesn't make them the same thing. Similarly, email uses the internet, but they are not the same thing.

 

[AndaBien]

I'm sure many of you will dismiss this because it's not AT specific. Nevertheless...


CONTRA-BODY MOVEMENT (CBM) -
(1) An exaggeration of a normal walking step. (2) For many years, Contra-Body Movement has been taught by "pulling the Left Shoulder back slightly as the Left Foot moves forward and, pulling the Right Shoulder back slightly as the Right Foot moves forward. This works for many people, unless (as many students do) they isolate the shoulder, which creates an awkward movement. (3) Recent GSDTA Contra-Body techniques focus on teaching from the hip instead of the shoulder. It is faster and easier. The shoulder is part of the frame and is attached to the hip. The hip is trained to go back (on the "&a") just prior to the foot moving forward. (4) CBM is most easily recognizable in Tango, but creates a more professional look in all forms of dance.
Teaching Note:
(1) Dancers should know that the active shoulder actually pulls DOWN & BACK into the lower spine. That's why it is currently taught from the hip. (2) Slight Contra Body Movement makes a decided difference in the level of West Coast Swing being danced. (3) In closed dance position, Contra-Body Movement is important, in Fox Trot & Tango, and even Country Two Step. When Contra-Body Movement is accomplished,early in the game, all turns become easier and eliminates the need for “Pre-leads” and “Preps.”

I think the analysis is correct; overly analytical for a social environment, but useful for a competition environment.

I don't care for the idea of exaggerated movement, (which why I don't do ballroom). I think the reason ballroom tango looks like a caricature is precisely because it is so exaggerated. If you see a person walking beautifully, they will have a natural CBM.

 

[dchester]

So the the life experience and culture of the kids on AB plays no part in how they are dancing? Their dancing IS based on that culture! Any style of dance is based on the culture and background from whence it sprang.

Sounds to me more like a prejudice concerning dance styles or musical styles than a real analogy to explain what is meant by cadencia

The difference is based on the difference in their culture. This is why with cadencia in tango, some Argentines would claim that you need to be an Argentine to really get it.

 

[borisvian13]

I don't think cadencia in AT is so hard describe verbally, approximately at least. It consists of: 1. acceleration within the step 2. certain lightness of the step , and 3. these two elements are combined in a way which reflects the flow of the music.
Following Mario's original suggestion, here are my examples:

No cadencia at all:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEMRp3ge5kU

Decent cadencia:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2-DV9yKY1U

(Certainly I could give examples of not only decent, but brilliant cadencia, but I wanted two couples with not too divergent styles dancing on the same song. The fact that the non-Argentinian couple is doing much better than the Argentinian one is also rather amusing in this context )

 

[JohnEm]

I don't think cadencia in AT is so hard describe verbally, approximately at least. It consists of: 1. acceleration within the step 2. certain lightness of the step , and 3. these two elements are combined in a way which reflects the flow of the music.
Following Mario's original suggestion, here are my examples:

No cadencia at all:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEMRp3ge5kU

Decent cadencia:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2-DV9yKY1U

(Certainly I could give examples of not only decent, but brilliant cadencia, but I wanted two couples with not too divergent styles dancing on the same song. The fact that the non-Argentinian couple is doing much better than the Argentinian one is also rather amusing in this context )

Oh yet another different meaning.

Pick a meaning, any meaning will do as long as it's about some facet of the dance. I suppose it adds to the mystery if words have some unfathomable, unexplainable, vague usage.

What's wrong with its real meaning?

Oh of course, that's too easy. We might be able to understand
what someone's actually talking about.

 

[Steve Pastor]

In Western musical theory, a harmonic cadence (Latin cadentia, "a falling") is a progression of (at least) two chords that concludes a phrase, section, or piece of music.[1] A rhythmic cadence is a characteristic rhythmic pattern indicating the end of a phrase.[2] Cadences give phrases a distinctive ending that can, for example, indicate to the listener whether the piece is to be continued or concluded. An analogy may be made with punctuation,[3] with some weaker cadences acting as commas that indicate a pause or momentary rest, while a stronger cadence acts as a period that signals the end of the phrase or sentence. A cadence is labeled more or less "weak" or "strong" depending on the sense of finality it creates. While cadences are usually classified by specific chord or melodic progressions, the use of such progressions does not necessarily constitute a cadence—there must be a sense of closure, as at the end of a phrase. - wikipedia

Not sure where I got this next one.
Cadencia - A deep check and replace, usually led by the man as he steps forward left. Useful for avoiding collisions and making direction changes in small spaces. May also refer to a subtle shifting of weight from foot to foot in place and in time with the music done by the man before beginning a dance to give the lady the rhythm he intends to dance and to ensure that she will begin with him on the correct foot.

 

[Angel HI]

I don't think cadencia in AT is so hard describe verbally, approximately at least. It consists of: 1. acceleration within the step 2. certain lightness of the step , and 3. these two elements are combined in a way which reflects the flow of the music.

You are right, yet I stand by the fact that it is subjective to the individual, and therefore, like John and Peaches posted, is a moot point. It can not be taught; it can only be suggested. The outcome can only be relative to how the dancer feels/depicts/interprets the music.

I'm sure many of you will dismiss this because it's not AT specific. Nevertheless...


CONTRA-BODY MOVEMENT (CBM) -

Your post, of course, comes directly out of the rule and/or tech book. No reference to you, at all, it is also one of the things that gripe my --- the most in BR. The book takes 3 paragraphs to overly analyze something that is nothing more than the natural movment of the body in motion.

Although, it never felt all that "natural" to me, ...

I really do not understad this. Yes, everyone moves differently, but, it is a natural motion that the right arm/side/shoulder/whatever moves forward as the left foot moves forward. Otherwise, we all would do the Frankenstein walking thing.

 

[Dave Bailey]

Otherwise, we all would do the Frankenstein walking thing.

I was doing this on Sunday and had a student who insisted he did indeed walk that way. It took me a while to convince him that he didn't.

Also, it's damn difficult to do that motion when walking backwards by yourself - I still find myself "Frankenstein-ing" on occasion.

 

[bafonso]

I was doing this on Sunday and had a student who insisted he did indeed walk that way. It took me a while to convince him that he didn't.

Also, it's damn difficult to do that motion when walking backwards by yourself - I still find myself "Frankenstein-ing" on occasion.

Recording yourself and your student is priceless...

 

[bafonso]

In Western musical theory, a harmonic cadence (Latin cadentia, "a falling") is a progression of (at least) two chords that concludes a phrase, section, or piece of music.[1] A rhythmic cadence is a characteristic rhythmic pattern indicating the end of a phrase.[2] Cadences give phrases a distinctive ending that can, for example, indicate to the listener whether the piece is to be continued or concluded. An analogy may be made with punctuation,[3] with some weaker cadences acting as commas that indicate a pause or momentary rest, while a stronger cadence acts as a period that signals the end of the phrase or sentence. A cadence is labeled more or less "weak" or "strong" depending on the sense of finality it creates. While cadences are usually classified by specific chord or melodic progressions, the use of such progressions does not necessarily constitute a cadence—there must be a sense of closure, as at the end of a phrase. - wikipedia

Not sure where I got this next one.
Cadencia - A deep check and replace, usually led by the man as he steps forward left. Useful for avoiding collisions and making direction changes in small spaces. May also refer to a subtle shifting of weight from foot to foot in place and in time with the music done by the man before beginning a dance to give the lady the rhythm he intends to dance and to ensure that she will begin with him on the correct foot.

Cadencia is a quality, it has nothing to do with the musician's interpretation of the word. Jazz musicians either have "that swing" or not. It's more like that the way dancers use the word.

 

[bordertangoman]

I don't think cadencia in AT is so hard describe verbally, approximately at least. It consists of: 1. acceleration within the step 2. certain lightness of the step , and 3. these two elements are combined in a way which reflects the flow of the music.
Following Mario's original suggestion, here are my examples:

No cadencia at all:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEMRp3ge5kU

Decent cadencia:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2-DV9yKY1U

(Certainly I could give examples of not only decent, but brilliant cadencia, but I wanted two couples with not too divergent styles dancing on the same song. The fact that the non-Argentinian couple is doing much better than the Argentinian one is also rather amusing in this context )

well these are two examples that I cant take seriously; the first couple look like their dancing kizomba - her hips wiggle all over the place, and is suspect his do but its hidden by his jacket and Detlef's tango is so stylised I dont think it has any cadenzia at all; he's all staccato movement....

 

[Dave Bailey]

Recording yourself and your student is priceless...

I always do this in privates. Also, I've been recording my work with my practice partner for a couple of years, and our monthly practice group records stuff regularly, posts it on our Facebook group, then opens it for critique.

Video is only useful if you take the time to review and critique the video - ideally, get others to do it also. That's how we improve.

 

[Mario7]

From Tangopilgrim's blog, he is now studying/dancing in BsAs:

Mario, What do I know? I had asked this question to various Argentine maetros before. There were different answers. I have asked it again, on your behalf, to Andrea. She answered “flavor, color”. I think I understand what Cadencia means: the movement that expresses music. Then again, the definition is not important. :artsy: -TP

 

[Dave Bailey]

From Tangopilgrim's blog, he is now studying/dancing in BsAs:

So basically it's synonymous with "style"?

 

[bordertangoman]

So basically it's synonymous with "style"?

With an effort not to get too semantic about this.....
"style" can be seen as something that is an artifice...eg ladies styling classes in mj

or it can be seen as putting something of yourself into the dance (other than poor posture )