CE question to leaders-the CW giro, how do you begin it?

[dchester]

OK, point taken. I guess my biggest preoccupation was the ease of start of the giro or turn. And yes, certain starts are more used than others...I figure that there's a reason for that and am just trying to acertain the most efficient ways to start. If the giro gets interrupted or turned into something else, that's not my concern at present. Thanks everyone!

Here is a drill that helped me quite a bit. With a practice partner, work on going into the giro from ochos (both back and front ochos) as well as coming out of the giro into ochos, and then back into the giro again. You can use the ochos to reverse the direction of the giro.

Actually, I need to practice this some more, myself.

 

[Steve Pastor]

For what it's worth, this is the spelling that seemed most common when I checked on it several years ago, with one "t"

Molinete

 

[AndaBien]

I saw Tete teach an amusing, or so I thought, molinete some years ago. There may be a video of it somewhere.

With his feet slightly separated, but remaining in place, he would lead his partner in a CCW molinete, about halfway around and leaving him with his feet crossed. He would then reverse the molinete into CW and untwist his feet.

I never worked it out into anything I felt comfortable with. Maybe I'll give it another shot.

 

[borisvian13]

Speaking of Tete, here's a not so popular way (at least for me) to start a clockwise giro. Look at 1.35:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alcBFsaRoPQ

This one is in parallel feet system and he starts it by making an open step against the follower's back step. This is possible without going to V-shaped embrace, it seems...

 

[dchester]

Speaking of Tete, here's a not so popular way (at least for me) to start a clockwise giro. Look at 1.35:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alcBFsaRoPQ

This one is in parallel feet system and he starts it by making an open step against the follower's back step. This is possible without going to V-shaped embrace, it seems...

Yes, but he still led her to the giro from back ochos.

 

[Zoopsia59]

There's no such thing in Tango, each partner has their own axis which themselves are always changing.

And to make the point differently, the only way an axis can be shared is for the man to stand on one leg and the woman to stand on one leg on his head! Or the other way round.

This is a problem actually caused by the use of the word axis in describing the way we stand in balance on one leg and in moving create new axes. But that use is accepted and understood as a shorthand for moving yet being balanced individually.

If you insist on re-using the word for two partners turning simultaneously as if they are both on the circumference of a circle, can we agree to call that an axis of rotation.

In purely astronomical terms, the rotational axis is the one within the center of a body that the body spins on. The path of travel external to the body is the revolutionary or orbital axis. In other words, the earth rotates on its own axis, and revolves around the sun.

Using that model, "rotational axis" is the term for turning in place ("spinning" on your own axis) NOT the term for going around the perimeter of a circle. If two people are both going around the path of a circle, the center of which is between them, they are both revolving around a single axis. (as satellites do to a sun)

So if you want to define axis as meaning only the one running through the body of the individual, and use an alternate term for the external axis that the couple may be using for a pair turn (or one partner being the center for the other partner going around) then rotational axis would be the wrong choice (and still misleading) since it actually means the axis of the individual unit.

Frankly, "axis" is used to mean both the individual dancer's vertical balance line and the center point of various turns, regardless of whether that turn is a rotation or a revolution...(or both... usually there is also rotational turning going on during an orbit)

Railing against the use of the term "axis" to mean the center point of a turn is futile. Its already a common usage and has been for awhile. We didn't invent it here. Science uses the term in both ways, and so do dancers. You might as well get used to it (and the ensuing confusion) because you aren't going to be able to stop this train.. the world will keep on spinnin'.

 

[Zoopsia59]

A giro is surely any turn not a specific one

That was my impression as well... a giro is a generic term for any turn. A molinete is a term (that is not universal) which refers to a specific giro of one partner doing a grapevine (side, back, side, front, side, back, side, etc) step around the other (or both doing it at the same time around a center point).

 

[Zoopsia59]

I meant "axis of rotation" - but OK, let me rephrase that - the partners are both walking around a central point somewhere in between them. They may also have a shared balance point (i.e. be learning on each other) of course.

Actually then you DIDN"T mean axis of rotation unless they ARE leaning on each other sharing their balance in which case, they are rotating as a unit with a single balance axis. If they are both on balance, they are revolving in orbit around a center axis.

As long as we are going to argue the uses of the term axis and decide some are legitimate and some are not, we might as well have science on our side.

(and where were all the physicists in this discussion?... why'd you guys leave this to ME? Geez... you can argue table legs but not astronomy? )

 

[Dave Bailey]

Actually then you DIDN"T mean axis of rotation unless they ARE leaning on each other sharing their balance in which case, they are rotating as a unit with a single balance axis. If they are both on balance, they are revolving in orbit around a center axis

Blimey. OK, whatever you say.

The amount of interest I have in debating the obscure terminology at this level is... sorry, I don't appear to have a microscope on me, so let's just call it "small".

I'm tempted to start a "Physics thread" for people to discuss this sort of stuff, as it seems to crop up a lot.

 

[JohnEm]

(and where were all the physicists in this discussion?... why'd you guys leave this to ME? Geez... you can argue table legs but not astronomy? )

Because you're going round in circles and our heads are spinning?

 

[bordertangoman]

I saw Tete teach an amusing, or so I thought, molinete some years ago. There may be a video of it somewhere.

With his feet slightly separated, but remaining in place, he would lead his partner in a CCW molinete, about halfway around and leaving him with his feet crossed. He would then reverse the molinete into CW and untwist his feet.

I never worked it out into anything I felt comfortable with. Maybe I'll give it another shot.

this is a quite common way for the man to turn; if you start with one foot crossed behind then turn until you are crossed the other way it allows, with practice, for a very smooth lead for the woman. Notes: keep the heel lifted of the foot in front so it can pass over the toes of the other foot.

 

[Dave Bailey]

this is a quite common way for the man to turn; if you start with one foot crossed behind then turn until you are crossed the other way it allows, with practice, for a very smooth lead for the woman. Notes: keep the heel lifted of the foot in front so it can pass over the toes of the other foot.

Yes - after a while it becomes natural to do a giro that way, simply because it's easier and smoother. Always easier when we don't have to move our feet

 

[Mario7]

this is a quite common way for the man to turn; if you start with one foot crossed behind then turn until you are crossed the other way it allows, with practice, for a very smooth lead for the woman. Notes: keep the heel lifted of the foot in front so it can pass over the toes of the other foot.

Yes, I am now practicing this daily. In my walking practice; every few steps I'll tuck my right foot behind my left and do a 360 degree CW giro and continue the walk. After a few days, my balance is considerably better.
I believe this will work because it did work with my solitary practice for parallel walks outside woman's right side. I would walk a straight line with my right foot going outside my left (slightly) of my left foot. At first, it seemed VERY difficult but weeks later it was simple. Of course, when I added my practice partner, it introduced another wrinkle; (how the off-center embrace threw my balance off again)..now, when I practice that one alone, I hold my arms out to my right side to approximate the balance adjustment while dancing with a partner.
I have to practice alone if I'm going to advance my technique and so I need to figure out innovative ways of doing it.

 

[Dave Bailey]

I had a bit of a play with this at today's practice session, and it's a good exercise.

Like ochos and other CE pivot-based movements, I think it works best if the woman takes small steps and/or makes them "back cross" rather than "full-pivot" steps.

 

[Zoopsia59]

it introduced another wrinkle; (how the off-center embrace threw my balance off again).

It seems to me that if you are trying to dance milonguero, the embrace is not off center. Even if the embrace is off-center, it shouldn't affect your balance unless you are doing something like leaning to your right by bending sideways at the waist..