Close Embrace clinic-the leads responsibility on the women's left.

Mario7

Member
I've set up a practice routine, designating a tanda to each facet of the dance. This frees me up to practice just warm-ups (walks) in the beginning and slowly graduate to figures (giros, crusadas,etc.) before actually dancing and having to come up with all that improvisation. My question is this; A couple of the walks that I need to practice are the parallel and cross footed walks on the woman's left side. I am alloting only one song to each so as to not exasperate the woman. What is her responsibility in this walk (if any). What I'm saying is that; I figure that I have to adjust my embrace and step a bit and I have to disassociate differently, etc. Should we work this out together or does she just walk and tell me whether it's comfortable or uncomfortable. Is she just responsible for walking and I have to figure out the rest? Does she compensate in any way when I am walking on her left or is that all my job? thks:kissme:
 
I hope that you finnaly show that CE you have been practicing.

What kind of CE is prevalent in your tango community?

Since if you dance CE V embrace you have slight offset and parralel walking on woman's left would be very difficult.

You only play with your embrace, you loosen it if necessary.
So that you still are in embrace, but not always need to be chest to chest.

If you want always to have chest to chest that you should have really excellent body dissociation.
 
... What is her responsibility in this walk (if any). What I'm saying is that; I figure that I have to adjust my embrace and step a bit and I have to disassociate differently, etc. Should we work this out together or does she just walk and tell me whether it's comfortable or uncomfortable. Is she just responsible for walking and I have to figure out the rest? Does she compensate in any way when I am walking on her left or is that all my job?

When you walk directly in front of your partner (inside), she must lean directly forward, or toward where your feet touch the floor. When you walk outside to her R, she must lean slightly toward her R, or to where your feet touch the floor. If you walk outside to her L, she must lean slightly toward her L, or to where your feet touch the floor. She and you both should lean in the direction toward your partner's axis, i.e. where your partner's feet touch the floor.

Other than that, she just walks backwards.

Additional comment:
The description above only applies when the leader is standing on one foot, which he is often not doing. Better said that the follower should lean directly in the direction of the leaders axis.
 
I hope that you finnaly show that CE you have been practicing..
This is the embrace that I am working towards...what would you call it?

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When you walk directly in front of your partner (inside), she must lean directly forward, or toward where your feet touch the floor. When you walk outside to her R, she must lean slightly toward her R, or to where your feet touch the floor. If you walk outside to her L, she must lean slightly toward her L, or to where your feet touch the floor. She and you both should lean in the direction toward your partner's axis, i.e. where your partner's feet touch the floor.
Other than that, she just walks backwards.

OK, great! I did not know this, it's a definate help. thanks
 
This is the embrace that I am working towards...what would you call it?

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Probally some old-fashioned CE V embrace or milonguero (I saw on some other video as milonguer). I believe Jantango would know better.
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When you walk directly in front of your partner (inside), she must lean directly forward, or toward where your feet touch the floor. When you walk outside to her R, she must lean slightly toward her R, or to where your feet touch the floor. If you walk outside to her L, she must lean slightly toward her L, or to where your feet touch the floor. She and you both should lean in the direction toward your partner's axis, i.e. where your partner's feet touch the floor.

Other than that, she just walks backwards.

Additional comment:
The description above only applies when the leader is standing on one foot, which he is often not doing. Better said that the follower should lean directly in the direction of the leaders axis.

Personally, I do not like this method of outside walking. Leaning sideways, even slightly, tends to disrupt most people's balance. Most of the time when leaders try/expect this with me (and with many followers I talk to) we feel that we are being pulled over.

I prefer a method that involves turning the shoulders to achieve the ability to walk "outside partner" (regardless of whether it is parallel or cross feet) and stay in milonguero chest to chest contact. By turning the shoulders, you can stay together and still get around the partner.

To walk to her right, turn towards her with YOUR right shoulder back. To walk to her left, do the opposite. Your shoulders have to be able to turn independently of your hips because your hips determine what direction you are going to walk. The tricky part is that many leaders will let their head turn with their shoulders rather than continue facing the direction they are walking. This makes the whole thing harder, and gives the follower the impression you are going to pivot her.

My opinion is that the advantage to using this method rather than the one suggested by AndaBien is that you aren't relying on the follower knowing a specific technique to "allow" you to execute the movement. If you are in flat on CE and you rotate your upper body, she has to rotate hers as well. If you keep your head looking down line of dance instead of allowing it to drift around with your shoulders, HER head will most likely also stay in a line with your line of dance rather than drift around when her shoulders turn. If you turn your shoulders and not your hips, she will more or less have to take the step in the direction you travel.

The only fly in the ointment is a slight tendency for the follower to take her step perpendicular to her shoulders. But if YOUR direction is clear, and you don't let your head drift with your shoulders, even if she allowed her hips to rotate with her chest, she'll have to go with you where you go

I can't emphasize enough how important it is for you to LOOK (with your whole head, not just your eyes) in the direction you plan to travel. Unless she is just so short that her skull is nowhere near yours, the position of her head helps her know where she is going to go when walking backwards. She may not even be aware that she derives some of her impetus for direction from this.

Edited to add:
Sorry... just watched your videos which came after AndaBien's post. Since the embrace in the videos is not flat-on CE, my method may not apply. This leader uses much more offset (the follower to his right) for outside walking than a flat on embrace calls for. He also uses a V sometimes.

The problem arises when a leader tried to use AndaBien's method while attempting to maintain a flat on (directly in front) embrace to get the feet on different tracks. Since that's not what you are going for, then maybe his method is better for you. You will probably find however, that walking outside-partner to her left will be awkward with her shifted to YOUR right (or in a V) and a considerable shift of her position relative to you will be nessesary? Don't know... I'm not very good at following in a V embrace.
 
...To walk to her right....
In depth, that's what I like! Muchissimas gracias Seniora Zoopy:kissme:
..Also, technique for the flat on CE embrace is greatly appreciated since that is the only way that I can dance at present.
The more 'V' embrace of the video is one that I am sort of trying to learn but haven't made any commitment to it yet.
 
What is her responsibility in this walk (if any).

Her responsibility is NOTHING. She needs to walk (backwards) normally, and all of the adjusting is on you, the lead. You should do this to the point that she should not (drastically) be able to tell the difference. It needs to happen seamlessly, and smoothly.

Its all on you.
 
Some interesting observations here indeed.

I prefer a method that involves turning the shoulders to achieve the ability to walk "outside partner" (regardless of whether it is parallel or cross feet) and stay in milonguero chest to chest contact. By turning the shoulders, you can stay together and still get around the partner.

To walk to her right, turn towards her with YOUR right shoulder back. To walk to her left, do the opposite. Your shoulders have to be able to turn independently of your hips because your hips determine what direction you are going to walk. The tricky part is that many leaders will let their head turn with their shoulders rather than continue facing the direction they are walking. This makes the whole thing harder, and gives the follower the impression you are going to pivot her.

My experience is that the leader has to manage his head differently
when on the closed or left hand side of his partner as the head positioning
is now much more awkward. I'll have to try and remember to pay
attention to this tonight and report back if I've anything relevant and helpful to say.

Right now all I can say is I'm sure I was taught to turn my
head towards my partner, in other words to my left. Whether I've now
evolved a different technique more in line with what you've posted I'll
have to see.

What I can say is that all the practice on your own will not prepare you
for the real thing with a partner. A big help on your own while no-one
can see you is to learn to swivel your hips independently of the rest of
your body. I was surprised once to see how much and how easily
a partner could do this without effort.
She never struggled with disassociation, it was natural to her.

Then practice rotating your upper body left and right without moving
your hips. The more fluid and the greater the movement the better.

Sorry... just watched your videos which came after AndaBien's post. Since the embrace in the videos is not flat-on CE, my method may not apply. This leader uses much more offset (the follower to his right) for outside walking than a flat on embrace calls for. He also uses a V sometimes.

My experience again was lots of things either don't work well or do not
work at all in the V-embrace. By definition you cannot walk on your
partner's left in the V-embrace.

Don't know... I'm not very good at following in a V embrace.

It's not you Zoops, blame it on the V-embrace.
 
Before I get to read all of these posts.. (it takes some concentration)
..how would you classify this embrace...this is my utmost hero; I can't say that I dance like him but I try to approximate his embrace.
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Her responsibility is NOTHING. She needs to walk (backwards) normally, and all of the adjusting is on you, the lead. You should do this to the point that she should not (drastically) be able to tell the difference. It needs to happen seamlessly, and smoothly.

Its all on you.
IMO, the follower needs to be able to disassociate, for it to work well (of course, so does the leader).
 
IMO, the follower needs to be able to disassociate, for it to work well (of course, so does the leader).

She also needs to be aware of where she is reaching with her back leg. Its very easy to inknowingly let it drift somewhere other than DIRECTLY back along the line of travel. What I've seen is that it is more likely to drift out rather than crossed. When the couple is just walking, it doesn't create as much of a porblem. When the leader is trying to dissasociate to walk "outside partner", it will be a bigger problem when her free leg reaches on a slight (or not so slight) diagonal from his intended line of travel.
 
Before I get to read all of these posts.. (it takes some concentration)
..how would you classify this embrace..

Hmmm... I'd say its a slightly offset, slightly V embrace. Its not so much V that she faces her right. But she is definitely connected to him more along her left side (and to his arm and shoulder more than to his chest) than the right side. (in other words, it is not "flat-on") She is also not directly in front of him, she is slightly offset. If you are looking for a "name" for this embrace, I can't help you. It is what it is.
 
Her responsibility is NOTHING. She needs to walk (backwards) normally, and all of the adjusting is on you, the lead. You should do this to the point that she should not (drastically) be able to tell the difference. It needs to happen seamlessly, and smoothly.

Its all on you.

I in general agree with Ampster here. My other half had problems with this for some time, but when he finally began to concentrate on making the follow feel as if she were walking in a line, things went better.


I don't know whether Mario is trying to make his walk in parallel or X-system, but I think each one presents it's own set of problems to deal with from the lead's perspective. I'd say they follower would need to do the same thing in both instances- try to keep her torso towards her partner and he should be making her walk feel as straight as possible.

Just imagining this right now without trying it, I'd say cross system will be more comfortable and parallel would be a booger.
 

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