Close embrace

For an extreme example of crossing side steps see 1:25-1:35 (right after she kicks a photographer, which always gives me a chuckle to watch):
Nothing funny about that Zoopsia59. I have always believed that the mark of good Nuevo Tango is based on the number of people on and off the floor the dancers make contact with. I have heard that in competitive NT you get points for kicking those around you, but can't confirm that myself.:confused:
 
To Zoopsia59:

Cross side steps are not ochos but I agree with you to say that Mariana has a strong technique for doing them very well. The direction of her cross side steps is in the alignment of her pelvis which is good. Take a look at 2:18 instead when the leader turns around the follower. He does wrong with the execution of the figure. He sends back the leg diagonally to his pelvis. He should have made a pivot first for his pelvis to be exactly perpendicular to the direction where he sends his leg. He also does wrong with his torso and arms. Definitely not a good dancer.
Agree with Zoo. Murat not a good dancer?!?! You obviously have absolutely no clue. I have danced with, and taken lessons from, Murat. While you may not like his style a lot of the time (I see a lot of performances of his that I don't like at all.), his technique is phenomenal, his teaching is amazing, his musicality is incredible, and he is hands down one of the all-time best leaders I have ever felt. Period. Oh, and while his performances are often not social-style at all, he is extremely capable of dancing amazingly well in extremely close conditions (the likes of which I have encountered only a couple of times outside of BsAs).

Your ideas as to what is "wrong" and "right" for at is...quite simply...extremely wrong.
 
Zoopsia and others, didn't you get the memo? Please refer to the very first post.

"I know you are pleased to hug each other while dancing but keep in mind that there are others who are watching you and it would be appreciated not to obtrude your unsightliness. If you can't, don't try, that should be the spirit in all milongas."

Any further questions?:rolleyes:
 
Zoopsia and others, didn't you get the memo? Please refer to the very first post.

"I know you are pleased to hug each other while dancing but keep in mind that there are others who are watching you and it would be appreciated not to obtrude your unsightliness. If you can't, don't try, that should be the spirit in all milongas."

Any further questions?:rolleyes:
LOL. Very good point.

Note to self: do not feed the trolls. :rolleyes:
 
Nothing funny about that Zoopsia59.

Yes, I know it's actually not funny to get slammed with a tango shoe. It's just on this vid it comes as a surprise that would appear comical to people who also laugh at America;s Funniest Home Videos. People in those things get hurt MUCH worse and they are aired for LAUGHS.

I'll also add that I was present for this demo and no one was hurt. If the guy sitting there had actually been injured, I wouldn't laugh.
 
My apology Zoopsia59. The moment in the video you discuss was worth a giggle.

My comment was directed towards my experiences sharing a crowded dance floor with a few of the more extroverted NT dancers. At a traditional milonga on a small floor, a leader who had complained off pista that one of the karate style boleos a young NT leader led had hit and bruised his partner.. The young man replied to the older; "go large or go home, old man."

That said I much admired his impressive black and white plaid baggy pants and matching black and white saddle style tennis shoes.
 
A while ago on another AT discussion board I read an interesting commentary from an international ballroom specialist, a world class dancer and adjudicator, to the following video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqMQxaRoLLk

(Unfortunately, the discussion was not in English, so it would be rather pointless to post a direct link here).

According to his analysis, based on musicality, posture, connection, alignment, movement dynamics -- all the basic criteria the IDSF judges look for in the first place -- those couples of old milongueros, should they suddenly appear on a ballroom dance competition floor, would get very high scores.
So, surprise, basic criteria for elegance in partner dancing actually do not differ that much from one style to another, because the law of physics, physiology, the body mechanics we have been working with are still the same. Elegance from that point of view is efficiency, effortlessness in musical expression.
Of course, at times it takes a trained eye to see the good from the bad and the ugly.

Now, I realize that the majority of dancers the OP has observed at his local milongas might look very different from ones we see in the video. Still it is not enough reason to claim that close embrace Argentine tango cannot be done with elegance. This kind of statement, at best, comes from a rather uninformed place, and at worst, is inflammatory.
 
There ARE many similarities between comtemporary AT and "ballroom", as stated.
In some (many?) cases deciding that what you see in AT is wrong or poor techinique... is wrong.
 
Agree with Zoo. Murat not a good dancer?!?!

No he's not. Too much wrong steps. Too much bending. Lacks of stability.

You obviously have absolutely no clue. I have danced with, and taken lessons from, Murat. While you may not like his style a lot of the time (I see a lot of performances of his that I don't like at all.), his technique is phenomenal, his teaching is amazing, his musicality is incredible, and he is hands down one of the all-time best leaders I have ever felt. Period. Oh, and while his performances are often not social-style at all, he is extremely capable of dancing amazingly well in extremely close conditions (the likes of which I have encountered only a couple of times outside of BsAs).

I'm not talking about what the follower may feel when dancing. I also have a great tango nuevo teacher who can perform quite well with any beginner. Good leader does not necessarily mean good dancer. My teacher also lacks of stability which is quite unelegant.

Your ideas as to what is "wrong" and "right" for at is...quite simply...extremely wrong.

I am right because I can explain to anybody why one dancer is better than other.

Homer Ladas for example looks much better than Murat Erdemsel. One of the key reasons is his carefulness to orientate correctly his pelvis. It's a simple rule and that makes him look much more elegant. But he's not the perfect dancer I have in mind (too much bending).
 
Homer Ladas for example looks much better than Murat Erdemsel. One of the key reasons is his carefulness to orientate correctly his pelvis. It's a simple rule and that makes him look much more elegant. But he's not the perfect dancer I have in mind (too much bending).

He also goes to milongas dressed like a surf bum. :p
 
Hi everyone!

First of all, I would like to wish you all a great new year and hope that it will bring you lots of fun in milongas and elsewhere ;)
And you too :)

Back to what I've read, I can't agree with something like (fat old lady style lol) crossed ochos. As far as I can remember, in all partner dances, forward and backward steps should be done perpendicularly to the pelvis whereas side steps should be done in the alignment of the pelvis.
Well yes, that's pretty much what differentiates a forward / back step from a sidestep. However, I'm not sure whether that makes sense in the context of a milonguero ocho, in that milonguero ochos don't really involve sidesteps, so no pivotting is needed. They're simply a set of repeated cross steps, one after the other.

I'm not even sure if they should be called "ochos", but we're probably stuck with the name.

That's the very reason of why we do pivots first before the execution of the forward or backward step, to make the pelvis perpendicular to the direction of the step. Diagonal steps are anti-elegant and should be banned from dancefloors.
Crosses are an exception. When you think about it, any cross by definition involves an element of diagonal-stepping.

Followers can make pivots in close embrace. It's difficult but it's possible. In fact, whether you dance in close or open embrace, you should be able to make almost all figures in both positions.
Sure - but this isn't a "how to do ochos in close embrace", we're talking about a different type of movement.

When I learnt this movement, a few months back, I kept being reprimanded by my teacher for pivotting to lead the start. It's only now that I realise why she was reprimanding me - because there's no pivot involved in the step, therefore I should not pivot my chest to lead it.
 
Actually, in a milonguero molinete, the ochos ARE in alignment to the pelvis... they are crossing sidesteps.

Ochos done in place can also be done as crossing sidesteps rather than pivots. Its just easier to do them crossing if they travel
Yep - all that makes sense to me. To be fair to Shaka, it's easy to get confused - I know I did, when I started with them; I thought of them as "really small ochos with a mini-pivot", and they're not.
 

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