Close embrace

[Dave Bailey]

I indeed come from the ballroom world and I continue to encounter lots of detractors who say that ballroom samba is not samba, ballroom cha-cha not cha-cha, ballroom tango not tango and so on.

Argentine Tango is not "ballroom tango danced socially", so I don't think this is a valid comparison. Argentine Tango is not Ballroom Tango - any more than, say, mambo is Rumba. Less, in fact; AT and BR have very different styles, postures and so on.

So I'd seriously suggest shaking off ballroom habits - yes, some commonalities apply, but you'll probably find it less than helpful to try to think of them.

Argentine tango is all about elegance, more than any other dance. Men are not to dance in milongas wearing short-sleeves shirts. Women are not to dance with low-heels shoes. Elegance is the main characteristic of argentine tango and there are more reasons for those ballroom rules to be applied to argentine tango (with some exceptions) than to any other dance.

Mmmm, I'm not sure that Argentine tango is all about elegance. If I had to pick one thing, I'd say it's all about connection.

 

[Zoopsia59]

So, surprise, basic criteria for elegance in partner dancing actually do not differ that much from one style to another, because the law of physics, physiology, the body mechanics we have been working with are still the same. Elegance from that point of view is efficiency, effortlessness in musical expression. .

The problem is that "elegant", like "beautiful" or "sexy", is just another adjective which by it's nature, is subjective.

I like your definition of elegant, but it may not be everyone's. For some, "elegant" may have specific meanings such as elongated lines and steps, straightened knees, etc. In fact, by some people's definition, a short, fat dancer can't ever be elegant because it's about a certain appearance, not just a certain way of moving.

 

[Zoopsia59]

I'm not talking about what the follower may feel when dancing.

Yes, well clearly that isn't as important as how it looks.
After all, there's no such thing as social dancing.. only performance.

 

[Zoopsia59]

I am right because I can explain to anybody why one dancer is better than other.

BWA HA HA!

OH Geez.

That means that I'M right too! Because I can explain why one dancer is better than another!

Now what happens when your explanation and mine are in total contradiction? Only one of us can be right, and it's going to be ME! (yep.. it will be because after all, I can EXPLAIN IT. And, in case I forgot to mention.. I am right!)

I said I'm right, therefore I am. End of discussion.

 

[Zoopsia59]

Homer Ladas ... But he's not the perfect dancer I have in mind (too much bending).

So maybe you should use as an example someone that IS the perfect dancer you have in mind.

Besides, as another poster pointed out, Homer wouldn't be allowed into your milonga because of the dress code.

 

[Zoopsia59]

Crosses are an exception. When you think about it, any cross by definition involves an element of diagonal-stepping.

Good thing no one ever does any kind of cross in AT then.

 

[Shaka]

He also goes to milongas dressed like a surf bum.

Well that's what I dislike about tango nuevo style.

 

[Zoopsia59]

When I learnt this movement, a few months back, I kept being reprimanded by my teacher for pivotting to lead the start. It's only now that I realise why she was reprimanding me - because there's no pivot involved in the step, therefore I should not pivot my chest to lead it.

An exception: If you are leading an ocho in a molinete sequence in milonguero style, you can rotate your chest so that the follower steps around. Does that make sense?

For instance.. you are starting a CCW sequence. You might:

Lead a regular side step to your left. (she also does a regular sidestep on her right foot) Then with your weight over your left, rotate your chest/shoulders/torso/ whatever (don't want to get bogged down in THAT argument) Your rotation should send her into the back ocho if she's connected to your chest. (so you took a sidestep and then rotated... she took 2 steps - a side step and a back ocho)

In this case, your rotation does not result in the same type of pivoting ocho that you might do with dissasociation and open embrace. It propels her to make the ocho as a milonguero ocho, but she has pivoted as a whole unit to do it around you rather than directly side.

Does this make sense the way I'm explaining it? It's SO easy to demonstrate and so hard to write about.

 

[Zoopsia59]

Well that's what I dislike about tango nuevo style.

So you don't like traditional milonguero style, and you don't like nuevo? What do you like in the AT world? I guess you'd like the old timers dress code worn by nuevo and fantasia show dancers?

 

[Shaka]

The problem is that "elegant", like "beautiful" or "sexy", is just another adjective which by it's nature, is subjective.

I like your definition of elegant, but it may not be everyone's. For some, "elegant" may have specific meanings such as elongated lines and steps, straightened knees, etc. In fact, by some people's definition, a short, fat dancer can't ever be elegant because it's about a certain appearance, not just a certain way of moving.

Elegance may be subjective to one's point of view. But there are points of view shared by most of people. So smokings are elegant and baggy trousers are not

 

[Zoopsia59]

So smokings are elegant and baggy trousers are not

This must be the language barrier... Smokings are elegant? I don't know what that means.

 

[Shaka]

Good thing no one ever does any kind of cross in AT then.

Bad dancers like Murat do in the video you posted.

Crossing the legs does not mean making a diagonal step. You can cross your legs for foot replacement or a complete side step in the direction given by the pelvis.

 

[Lilly_of_the_valley]

The problem is that "elegant", like "beautiful" or "sexy", is just another adjective which by it's nature, is subjective.

That, too. That is why in my earlier post I hinted that at times there is no other remedy than looking away from "a sore eye's sight".
Everybody is entitled to an opinion. One does not have to be an expert to make one. However, there is always an option out there to make an informed opinion, and I believe it is what most of us are trying to achieve here on this board.

 

[Shaka]

This must be the language barrier... Smokings are elegant? I don't know what that means.

Sorry, I mean tuxedoes.

 

[Zoopsia59]

Bad dancers like Murat do in the video you posted.

Crossing the legs does not mean making a diagonal step. You can cross your legs for foot replacement or a complete side step in the direction given by the pelvis.

I was being sarcastic. La Crusada is one of the most important steps in AT. One of the (many) ways to get into it is to draw back to it diagonally.