Contradiction and Autodidacticism

[jantango]

Autodidacticism (also autodidactism) is self-education or self-directed learning.


This is how the milongueros learned tango in the 1940s and 50s. They didn't have a teacher telling them what they were doing was wrong. They observed others and practiced. They found what worked for them and perfected it. Each has his own way of dancing tango.

Men should ask for feedback from their partners and listen. It doesn't matter what the teacher says if his dance partner isn't happy. Ask her and then listen to what she says.

 

[Angel HI]

The OP answered his query by acknowledging that...

.... different things seem to work equally well for different people; so ultimatley each person has to decide what works for them when they dance with other people and you may find you will need to adapt if you go to a new geographic reason.

I would further this by saying that one adapts, not from region to region, but from partner to partner. The following post agrees w/ both the OP and me, but limits the query to the lead. IMHO, it works both ways.

This is how the milongueros learned tango in the 1940s and 50s. They didn't have a teacher telling them what they were doing was wrong. They observed others and practiced. They found what worked for them and perfected it. Each has his own way of dancing tango.

Men should ask for feedback from their partners and listen. It doesn't matter what the teacher says if his dance partner isn't happy. Ask her and then listen to what she says.

 

[opendoor]

interesting: only two of us call themselves an autodidact

cheers OD

 

[bordertangoman]

interesting: only two of us call themselves an autodidact

cheers OD

sometimes I am an autodidn'tact

 

[Dave Bailey]

The next question is how as a leader do you ensure that happens.

I've lost track of what we're talking about actually...

But to be honest DB the reason I mentioned the left arm is it the most benign part of our bodies in AT terms and you would think there is a uniform method of holding it. However I can introduce you to at least 10 different teachers (all highly regarded) and each one will give you a different approach on holding the left arm.

Yep. Which, clearly, probably means it doesn't matter. It definitely doesn't matter in close embrace. And it probably doesn't matter much in open. Hold it in a position that works with your partner, I'd say.

Having said that the one constant they all stress is that it should be relaxed.

Well... actually... Charles at TVT said that (in open only, mind) that the arm should have some rigidity - or tension. Not as much as in salsa / MJ / WCS, but you do need some tension to be able to communicate with that hand. I think that makes sense.

I can't imagine how many contradictory methods are taught in regard to the parts of the body that are important. However it would be interesting to find out what are the constants.

The problem is that few teachers say "These are fundamental / axiomatic, and these are subjective / stylistic"...

 

[Dave Bailey]

Why would you want to lead a linear boleo on a social dance floor?

Because it's fun - it's the closest you can get to playing Frogger in real life

On a more serious note:

But, to answer your question. Steve was talking about close embrace, you don't do linear boleos in close. It has to be in open embrace, and you don't have any choice but to use your hands.

Yeah, most boleos are naturally done in open I think.

But that could be just a subjective opinion...

 

[Dave Bailey]

interesting: only two of us call themselves an autodidact

Mainly because I can't pronounce it...

 

[Steve Pastor]

First a clarification from 3 AM. My comment on the usefulness of some tension in the man's left hand and the woman's right was in open embrace. Good to see a comment the someone teaches that, I guess, because it is confirmation of my observation/belief. It IS possible to dance open with a very relaxed open side of the frame, but it limits what you can do.

you don't do linear boleos in close. It has to be in open embrace, and you don't have any choice but to use your hands.

Well, you have to use your "hands", but I have been known to lead a linear boleo in "close embrace" which to me means apilado.

I was dancing apilado with a woman who is really a very good dancer, has been to Buenos Aires several times, took lessons from Steven Payne for part of the time I studied with him, etc. I could hear the end of the song coming, and knew it was one of those that ends with an sharp musical accent. I abruptly ended my forward momentum and used my hands/arms to keep my partner from flying away from me, hoping that she had enough presence to "let the momentum carry her leg backwards".
There was of course no one anywhere close to her.
It almost worked, which is how it usually works out.
I think it is just so unexpected, but the women who put up with me on a routine basis know that I try to interpret what is happening in the music, and, although the "free leg" being free is very useful in "close embrace" and allows for "play", the linear boleo is just too unusual when it comes out of the blue. (Well, not really, because it's in the music, I'd argue, but you get my point.)
And really, tiny, close to the floor movements of many kinds can be led even in crowded conditions if "aimed" appropriately. After all, the only space that we "own" is beneath us, but if, for instance a "boleo" does not go beyond, let's say, the man's left elbow, you are dancing in your own space.

 

[Gssh]

Re: Linear Boleos

What i have found to work reasonably well in close embrace are linear boleos forward - i.e. giving her a strong imulse towards me and opening my legs so that her leg can swing forward between mine. It doesn't work with all followers, but if it works the "OMG, i cant believe we just did this"-moment is priceless - nobody expect this in close embrace (it even works in close embrace milonga if she is a very sharp follower)

Gssh

 

[opendoor]

close rebound

... but I have been known to lead a linear boleo in "close embrace" which to me means apilado....

The only problem is the rebound: it can be a saludo, another linear to the front, or a cuarto. So, watch out men! Sometimes you should change into open hold then, .......

 

[dchester]

Re: Linear Boleos

What i have found to work reasonably well in close embrace are linear boleos forward - i.e. giving her a strong imulse towards me and opening my legs so that her leg can swing forward between mine. It doesn't work with all followers, but if it works the "OMG, i cant believe we just did this"-moment is priceless - nobody expect this in close embrace (it even works in close embrace milonga if she is a very sharp follower)

Gssh

So basically, you are replacing the potential danger to others, with potential danger to your . . .

:neutral:

 

[Subliminal]

Screw Daredevil. Gssh is the true Man Without Fear.

 

[bordertangoman]

Screw Daredevil. Gssh is the true Man Without Fear.

or he has footballers legs like me; dont notice any pain below the knee;

On the dance floor I have been kicked countless times, had my foot trodden on by a stiletto, my heel scraped by anothers foot, but not once did I break step.

( I had to stop when my partner caught her heel in my turnups; so I dont wear those any more, and when a shoelace caught in my partners shoe strap; now whats the chance of that happening twice?!!!)

 

[Gssh]

or he has footballers legs like me; dont notice any pain below the knee;

Thats probably more accurate - i used to do muay thai, and play soccer, and when something happens i always say "Don't worry - i have been kicked by much bigger bigger people with much more force and much more intent"



Gssh