Contradictions in teaching “caminar”

[ArbeeNYC]

In my personal experience it takes about a decade or more before majority of dancers start appreciating that dancing is more than physical movement. When I started standard advise was at least a year of training before average man could lead, navigate and dance at a milonga. At some minimal acceptance level. Some teachers said two years if you are lucky. For ladies who wanted to follow it was about half of that.

Five years later I came across new set of teachers that would take the class out for milongas. That is a good practice. It included fresh beginners as well as six month beginners. At least it exposes people to milonga atmosphere, what to expect and where their dancing stands in comparison.

As a zenism I will agree to the statement that “you are a beginner for first twenty years”.

Interesting about the 10-year span. Could be. I know it has taken me several years to get comfortable with the dance and turn it into something that feels like a natural extension of my body. It's generally said that receptive followers can learn in a much shorter period of time (often depends on age and fitness, well, same with leading I guess).

Taking the class to a milonga is a very good idea (also helps the milonga). Only one of my teachers promised to take a beginner class out but we never got around to it. I was clueless the first time I went on my own. If you have any outside milongas in your neighborhood, that can be a good way to get started.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Thank goodness Gravito doesn't show up at the practica where I do my AT ! And when that woman whom I had seen dancing a while ago asked me if I'd like to dance, and I lead what I consider to be not beginner stuff with her and told her that I'd seen her dancing and that I knew she wasn't a beginner... Well, shoot, I don't think she's old enough to have been doing AT for 20 years, and I'm not quite at 20 years into it yet...
...
My feeling is that some "good" dancers never get it.

Poor Gavito, he gets dragged into everything. But I understand his point, especially since the understanding implied is not about steps but largely about our relation to the music and culture of tango. And true about some "good" dancers never getting it, although I wouldn't use that adjective, even in scare quotes.

 

[opendoor]

..will say that I took lessons for 6 months before going to a practica..

All roads lead to Rome. I danced six month at milongas and practicas and started lessons then. It was learning by doing.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

So if you don't control you may create a chaos on the whole dancefloor.

Absolutely, yes. Good floor craft takes years to learn. It's one of the more difficult aspects of leading. And some leaders *never* figure it out.

On the other side, there are many skills you can only practice there, as you all know.

Social skills and floor craft, largely, and dancing in a crowd.

As the number of practicas we have here is quite reduced, there is no alternative than going to Milongas from time to time. I try to choose well when and where I dance, and so far I didn't have any feeling that I disturbed anyone.

I'd still claim that practicas are the way to go for the first couple of years, with the occasional visit to a milonga. If you can regularly attend one or more practicas, it will help. Some of ours are a cross between a milonga and a practica. Lots of dancers, regular tandas, lots of people on the floor. Opportunities for trying things out or simply dancing, maybe trying new things. If you have a regular partner, it's even easier.

Also - if Tango wants more dancers, especially young ones, Tango must open a little bit and offer different types of Milongas. This unspoken "Karate system" with "I only have the yellow belt, so I'm not allowed to go social dancing yet" can be a turn off for many.
I'm not saying all Milongas have to transform intro practicas, not at all. But I think there should be a variation of Milongas with different ambiances than just this perfection and codes everywhere.
I really like that whole magic around it, but in smaller cities this leads to just seeing the same faces again and again because many people feel excluded.

It's a legitimate criticism. For me the alternatives are more practicas and alternative milongas (if you want them) where non-tango music is played and you can pretend your Chicho Frumboli. Those are generally pretty free-form events.

The trick with bringing new people in to traditional milongas (not always young, by the way) is to introduce them gradually to the milonga and not scare them away. This is much, much easier for a follower (especially young) than a leader, who would do well to find a regular partner when starting out. I don't think there is a simple, easy way to break into this. It's largely a process of acculturation. The fact that you are Spanish speaking makes that much easier for you than for others (like myself).

 

[Rabbit]

The trick with bringing new people in to traditional milongas (not always young, by the way) is to introduce them gradually to the milonga and not scare them away. This is much, much easier for a follower (especially young) than a leader, who would do well to find a regular partner when starting out.

To be fair, I think it's also difficult for the less popular followers.

 

[Gssh]

For me the alternatives are more practicas and alternative milongas (if you want them) where non-tango music is played and you can pretend your Chicho Frumboli. Those are generally pretty free-form events.

I absolutely love traditional milongas because i feel that the often underestimated component of what makes tango compelling as a social dance it that it is to some extent a group dance - for me the core of the milonga experience is the flow of the dancefloor. It is one of the things that i most keenly miss outside BA. No matter what peoples dance looks like, and what the level is, even if you go la catedral, there is a coherence of the dancefloor.

So for me i think that practicas, that are explicitly a space where there couples are not bound to the flow, and (some? most?) alternative milongas are not helping people understand what tango as a dance is about, and sometimes make it more difficult. I met a quite a few people in BA who did not enjoy themselves because they experienced the ronda as restrictive, they did not like the "leaders dancing with all the other leaders in the room" aspect of it. For me, the moments when the dancefloor breathes and pulses with the music, and everybody is part of that pulse, these are the magic moments.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

I absolutely love traditional milongas because i feel that the often underestimated component of what makes tango compelling as a social dance it that it is to some extent a group dance - for me the core of the milonga experience is the flow of the dancefloor. It is one of the things that i most keenly miss outside BA. No matter what peoples dance looks like, and what the level is, even if you go la catedral, there is a coherence of the dancefloor.

I fully agree that movement of the crowd on the pista is one of the most important elements of a milonga and, like you, I feel that flow on the dance floor (at my local milongas) is sorely lacking. When you get coherence among the couples with the music and the flow, it's a beautiful experience. We have far too few dancers who understand this or told just how important it is.

Our local practicas follow the floor patterns of the milonga. There is regular movement around the floor and regular tandas with cortinas. Couples can move to the sides of the room if they want to stop and practice something specific, but you do also get a chance to work with and practice floor craft.

I met a quite a few people in BA who did not enjoy themselves because they experienced the ronda as restrictive, they did not like the "leaders dancing with all the other leaders in the room" aspect of it. For me, the moments when the dancefloor breathes and pulses with the music, and everybody is part of that pulse, these are the magic moments.

Oh, absolutely, about the floor breathing and pulsing. But you need thoughtful, self-aware leaders. For those who find the ronda restrictive and don't wish to acknowledge other leaders on the floor, I'd suggest an alternative venue.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

To be fair, I think it's also difficult for the less popular followers.

Well, especially for the less popular followers!

 

[Rabbit]

Oh, absolutely, about the floor breathing and pulsing. But you need thoughtful, self-aware leaders. For those who find the ronda restrictive and don't wish to acknowledge other leaders on the floor, I'd suggest an alternative venue.

Please don't. Go to the milongas where the competition style dancers hang out, that's where you'll find the people who actually don't care about floorcraft or what music is playing.

 

[opendoor]

Please don't. Go to the milongas where the competition style dancers hang out, that's where you'll find the people who actually don't care about floorcraft or what music is playing.

This is a much easier environment for the beginner as the "breathing floor" Arbeen mentioned. Escenario or neo dancers leave space around them or dance on the spot.

Oh, absolutely, about the floor breathing and pulsing. But you need thoughtful, self-aware leaders. For those who find the ronda restrictive and don't wish to acknowledge other leaders on the floor, I'd suggest an alternative venue.

Agreed, the moment the floor is breathing, pulsing and creaking is a highly difficult environment. When I was a beginner I watched it almost devoutely from the edge. Really magic moments when couples merge to one living organism to the heart beat of the music.

 

[Bailango]

I remember reading somewhere that many of the older generation only danced to a few of their favourite orchestras. I wonder if it's a question of their favourite music influencing the development of their style, or their natural movement style choosing the music for them.

It is probably more of the former than the latter. At subconscious level it may not be apparent to them that perhaps their natural movement style fits certain music.

My information is third hand. From current generation of Argentine instructors/teachers who been dancing since young age, who got the information second hand passed down to them by the golden age masters they learnt from.

I heard from several old (70s and older) and current generation (less than 50) visiting Argentine instructors about how it is common to dance a certain orchestra with a particular set of partners. Most of the visiting instructors are men (and when accompanied by a lady, she is usually younger). General impression I gathered is that they have their go to partners dictated by the orchestra. They are also pick about tandas they will dance to at milongas and sit out a lot of tandas during the night.

 

[Bailango]

My experience is different. The character of the milongas has changed towards a more beginner friendly environment in the last decades. This happened simply due to financiel reasons: the music became straighter and it is frowned now on swapping lanes or doing giros. I called this ballroomization of tango. And ten years ago there was an exodus of the good and skilled dancers that moved to the emerging encuentro scene.
There is another blurring of the milonga, at least in my hometown: two of six studios offer an format called “milonga nueva“ especially for newcomer and students.

In health tango scenes beginners have multiple options. Practicas, Practicalongas, Beginner friendly milongas, etc. At milongas billed as high levels there isn't anyone stopping beginners at the door or checking for yellow belt. In my experience what happens at such milongas is that the beginners find it very intimidating. The vibe is not welcoming towards beginners. Part of that is unique to tango social dancing. People prefer to be more selective in who they dance with. It can be dictated by familiarity or skill level. Other social dances are more friendly.

 

[Bailango]

To be fair, I think it's also difficult for the less popular followers.

It creates a vicious self perpetuating cycle. The popular beginner followers (read younger) get more dances. More dancing is accelerated learning. More dancing means less drop out rate. The less popular beginner followers (read older) get asked less. That slows down their learning curve. Except for determined ones or those who come with friends, can lead to high drop outs. The older beginners followers that survive and thrive usually come with good background in other dance forms. They already have a headstart with ability to be balanced, hold their axis, physical conditioning to dance movements, partner connection, etc.

 

[Bailango]

Watch this video, how he steps and his timing
is very clear. I think it's better you work it out
than me tell you what he is doing.

Thanks for posting. I didn't know or heard of him before. I absolutely loved his way of dancing. Most videos don't do much for me. In my mind this has always been how I wanted my tango to be and what I aspired for. I have come across a few random dancers who dance similarly at milongas. They always catch my eye. They are rare. It was hard to describe. Now I have a video to show what I like

 

[Rabbit]

It creates a vicious self perpetuating cycle. The popular beginner followers (read younger) get more dances. More dancing is accelerated learning. More dancing means less drop out rate. The less popular beginner followers (read older) get asked less. That slows down their learning curve. Except for determined ones or those who come with friends, can lead to high drop outs. The older beginners followers that survive and thrive usually come with good background in other dance forms. They already have a headstart with ability to be balanced, hold their axis, physical conditioning to dance movements, partner connection, etc.

To be fair to the pretty young ones, most of them have dance experience as well, so it's sort of an illusion that they learn more quickly because they get more dances. A follower with a few months of tango experience and a bunch of transferrable fundamental skills is almost always a better dancer than one with a few years of tango experience who hasn't developed these skills. (It's a bit different for leaders because they are more limited by tango-specific skills such as how to lead, manage the floorcraft and understand the unfamiliar old music)