Contradictions in teaching “caminar”

[latinjazz]

Ive heard of that effect before but what came to mind first was the Voight-Kampff test.

And my first association was the „Peter-principle“, adapted to good dancers transforming into bad teachers... Old problem in many dances.

 

[latinjazz]

BTW, I'm still looking for a video of a ronda where one can see at least the phrases of the music while audio muted.

Yes? Would you mind posting it?

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Not necessarily.

There are plenty of "followers" who lift their high-heeled
feet off the floor to autonomously wave their legs around.
Woe betide anyone within range. I have been amazed
in the past just how high their sharp high heels can reach.

I long for the time when some intelligent teacher will tell
women that high heels are by no means compulsory for tango.
For most people I know they are an impediment to real dance.

Well, OK, low boleos then and feet near the floor. And yes, some women can get up pretty high with their feet. But generally it's the fault of the leader for leading her too close to the couple ahead.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Exactly this. And at least where I live in 2019, the surest way to become competent is not by hanging around dance events and other dancers, but by taking classes.

Couldn't disagree more. You will never learn to dance tango socially if you only attend classes. You'll simply get good at doing workshops.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

BTW, I'm still looking for a video of a ronda where one can see at least the phrases of the music while audio muted.

Can't you simply mute the sound on the video?

 

[ArbeeNYC]

BTW, I'm still looking for a video of a ronda where one can see at least the phrases of the music while audio muted.

Maybe:

 

[opendoor]

Exactly.. the surest way to become competent is not by hanging around dance events.. but by taking classes..

I think, these are not interchangeable activities. For a speedy progress different channels are needed:
-classes are for social aspects, as finding the next dance partner..
-homework is for mnemonic training and for building one‘s own system..
-workshops are for disturbing the system and getting new impulses..
-privates are for a subtile feedback in posture and habits.

 

[Bailango]

Yeah but no one is complaining about experienced dancers that are good, and you certainly don't need an extremely high level of physical fitness or technique to be considered a good dancer.

I think all of us are complaining about experienced dancers (both leaders and followers) who have been dancing for a long time and still manage to cause a bad experience for their partners and other people on the floor due to being actually incompetent in one or more fundamental aspects of the dance. Again I would stress that the minimal acceptable level of floorcraft, balance, control, musicality etc is actually not very high unless you are in one of the more elitist events, and safety would be easy if people would let go of their egos and just refrain from doing "moves" they can't do properly or safely.

This!! Makes the point I would have wanted to make.

 

[Bailango]

Well, OK, low boleos then and feet near the floor. And yes, some women can get up pretty high with their feet. But generally it's the fault of the leader for leading her too close to the couple ahead.

You haven't danced with followers who will do a boleo when it isn't lead? I see it all the time. Even other women comment on it. It is fairly common among those dancing little over 6 months.

And if leader leads a boleo, it is follower's responsibility on whether to do a high boleo or low boleo depending on how crowded the floor is and where on the floor the couple is. I can't believe you are ignoring follower's responsibility. There is a reason it is a partner dance. If something is going to be dangerous, nothing says the follower should do it. A follower has all the power to decide whether to follow the lead or not if circumstances don't warrant it.

 

[JohnEm]

Maybe:

Oh weird! That was recorded by Janis about a month
after the end of my first long visit so I recognise some
the dancers. By 10pm on Wednesdays the floor was
quieter and the demands of floorcraft were different.

But this idea of a breathing floor cannot be seen,
it can only be felt by being within it. Lo de Celia, with
its formal seating and high ratio of dancers to floor space,
in theory is the ideal place to experience it. But I have
only experienced it once there, and then I realised
the harmony of undisturbed gentle progression only
after the moment had passed!

 

[itwillhappen]

But this idea of a breathing floor cannot be seen,

However, I don't search for a "breathing" floor, just for a ronda moving in a coherent way so that the phrases of the music can get recognized. But without audio there seems to be a muddle of movements.

 

[JohnEm]

However, I don't search for a "breathing" floor, just for a ronda moving in a coherent way so that the phrases of the music can get recognized. But without audio there seems to be a muddle of movements.

Then you are asking for too much!
Yes, we are all connected via the music -
well those who listen and are influenced by it -
but traditional dancers improvise step by step,
rather than phrase by phrase although they
may be influenced by it. I tend to think of it
as principally stepping to the beat (even if beats
are omitted in the music and if the dancers pause
or omit beats they still step on a beat) and moving
to what I feel (or hear) in the music.

Your objective requires more space to actually move
than I am considering. A crowded floor actually imposes
a restrictive discipline and movement at Lo de Celia can
sometimes be along no more than one side of the square
dancefloor in the 2 or 3 minutes of one dance.
But you are still seeking a visual indication from dancers
who are not dancing for visual effect. You can expect that
on a staged exhibition or show but not from social
dancers dancing only with and for each other.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

You haven't danced with followers who will do a boleo when it isn't lead? I see it all the time. Even other women comment on it. It is fairly common among those dancing little over 6 months.

I have. But I try to avoid followers who randomly pop out high boleos on crowded floors. And generally I don't lead them either.

 

[LadyLeader]

Most of the followers use back boleos but only two partners are loading them with energy - I have talked about this with them but they insist. To me it is ok with low back boleos, high and low front boleos between us and ganchos. Why isn't that fun enough?

(I maybe should brush up some basic al reves steps so I can catch the back boleos when needed.)

 

[Gssh]

I heard from several old (70s and older) and current generation (less than 50) visiting Argentine instructors about how it is common to dance a certain orchestra with a particular set of partners.

I think this is one of these weird tango things, where something reasonably common and universal is turned into one of the "amazing secrets of true buenos aires tango" (tango pronounced the argentine way) (see also cabeceo, codigos). Everybody likes and dislikes some types of tango, and also has different musicalities, so if there is an actual community where people know each other reasonable well people will gravitate to partners who are likely to make a tanda enjoyable. I highly doubt that that was ever a 100% rule, but at the same time i think it is a good reminder that not dancing is often preferable to a dance that we can predict will be no fun for either of us. The same way when we go out for dinner with friends we know who would be fun to do craft beer&burgers with, or white tablecloth, or hole-in-the-wall with untranslated menu.