(Dance) Partners: for better or worse

[elisedance]

Having switched recently from a pro/am to amateur partnership its very interesting to compare the differences. Despite everything I have read on the issue they are actually not that different - after all you dance with someone and try to make that as expressive, technically excellent and as beautiful as you can. There are differences, however, one big one is lessons.

In pro/am your lesson is your total contact time. Thus, you have to learn basic method, expression and routines and also get your practice on these all in the same period. Since you can not really learn it without repetition, this is a significant part of the hour. Before a competition I could be doing 4-6 hours a week.

Obviously one can spend a lot more time on practice when you dance amateur - time is easier to arrange (assuming availabilit and common purpose etc). I had not anticipated, however, what effect that would have on the lessons - by spending virtually all of the time on technique, expression and routines you get so much more out of the hour. We currently take two a week and I can't imagine taking more - it would simply be too much.

 

[meow]

Are the lessons costing the same as before? If so, I imagine you feel you are getting more value for money, as well.

 

[elisedance]

Sure - and thats the case for everything except personal stuff such as costumes. Competition pro/am costs are 4 to 10 times higher than amateur. Still, I don't regret a single one!

 

[elisedance]

I made a new discovery (for myself) that is particularly relevant for developing an amateur partnership. When I dance social as a follower I try very hard to follow your partner's leads, less so of course, the better the partner - the object being to dance together as well as we both can. When I danced with my pro learning or practicing routines I did hte same. The dynamic is a little different since its more important to project the 'led' feeling. [In retrospect this was probably the wrong way to do it - but there is a pressure on you to do what you are taught and not what you feel.]

OK, so we come to partnership dancing. Here I dance exactly what I feel and (excepting when we are on the dance floor) make no attempt to do what I know I should do at that point in the routine but what I feel. Its self-evident in retrospect since without doing that my partner can not identify where his leads are incorrect and, likewise I can not improve my following abilty. It can, of course, generate some 'exchanges' but it allows us to identify the problem areas and come up with (or get the pro) to fix them.

For me this has been quite a revelation and I think it is peculiar to amateur partnership dancing. I suppose one should do the same in pro/am but by not doing the move I knew I should do in favor of the move I sensed it felt as if I was critisizing the pro's dancing ability.

 

[MrBroadway]

I made a new discovery (for myself) that is particularly relevant for developing an amateur partnership. ... For me this has been quite a revelation and I think it is peculiar to amateur partnership dancing. I suppose one should do the same in pro/am but by not doing the move I knew I should do in favor of the move I sensed it felt as if I was critisizing the pro's dancing ability.

I agree it is particularly relevant, but I don't think that it is peculiar to am-couples. I compete pro/am, and (over the years) several of my pro partners have a history of (purposely, during practice, usually without warning) going into what I call "boat-anchor mode" - following only what I lead, no more no less, no anticipating what she assumes I'm trying to lead. Very good practice for me - forces me to realize what I should be doing for lead, and to learn the nuances of leading and (if necessary) placing my partner where I want her to be (good for social dancing ). (Also essential for competing - this year I had a stretch of 3 comps where I competed with 4 different pros! But that's another story.) ... And I disagree about "critisizing the pro's dancing ability". (I presume that he has the modicum of confidence usually found in pros.) You would be conveying to your pro-leader exactly what you thought was lead - which would indicate to him that you missed or mis-understood a signal. And as far as "dancing what you feel rather than what you know you should do" (paraphrase) - - that's up to you and your partner: what is your partner's confidence in your ability to freestyle or vary a routine within set parameters (especially if you're doing this during competition!) As am-leader, that's the confidence I have to have in my pro-follower - "my lead is an invitation; and whatever she does, I just have to deal with it!"

 

[Laura]

And I disagree about "critisizing the pro's dancing ability". (I presume that he has the modicum of confidence usually found in pros.) You would be conveying to your pro-leader exactly what you thought was lead - which would indicate to him that you missed or mis-understood a signal.

I agree with you, MrBroadway. If I danced the "wrong" figure by following what I felt was being led, then either (1) The Pro needs to teach me more about how to dance so that I can pick up the right lead at the right time and/or (2) The Pro needs to make sure the lead was correct and clear.

Most of the time it's (1) for me, but every so often (2) happens . Sometimes it's even a combination of (1) and (2).

Or course, sometimes I'm just out to lunch and dance the wrong thing, like if I'm distracted by a shiny object or somehow get my mind temporarily stuck dancing some ancient choreography from an old partnership.

 

[etp777]

SHINY!!

But yeah, Mr Broadway, my Pro does the same thing. Esp if she suspects I'mt not doing something quite right, but she realizes (as a good pro should) that she might just be anticipating what i'm trying to lead. then she'll just "dead" it as I call it, and soetimes my lead will be fine, an the step will still happen, but more often, her suspcision will have been right, and we'll go back and figure out (and fix) what I was doing wrong. Or since it's a lead, more often case of what I wans't doing but should have been.

 

[fascination]

I agree with you, MrBroadway. If I danced the "wrong" figure by following what I felt was being led, then either (1) The Pro needs to teach me more about how to dance so that I can pick up the right lead at the right time and/or (2) The Pro needs to make sure the lead was correct and clear.

Most of the time it's (1) for me, but every so often (2) happens . Sometimes it's even a combination of (1) and (2).

Or course, sometimes I'm just out to lunch and dance the wrong thing, like if I'm distracted by a shiny object or somehow get my mind temporarily stuck dancing some ancient choreography from an old partnership.

to me this is the most exciting think about the evolution of my dancing recently...I am catching up...and it is about 25 % of the time that pro has something to fix now as well...or we need to have a talk about what I felt and how we can both tweak whatever we are doing...I am finding that newfound space is absolutely inspiring

 

[MrBroadway]

... or somehow get my mind temporarily stuck dancing some ancient choreography from an old partnership.

Ohboy! LOL! :roll: Been there, done THAT!

On rare occasions, I do it; on rarer occasions, pro does it (in her case, doing a different student's choreo) - but it does happen! It can make for some interesting freestyle until I get us back into the routine somewhere - but then, that's why I wanted to learn how to dance in the first place!
Boy, does that get the ol' adrenaline flowing!! :bouncy:

And that's were the confidence factor comes in - whether pro-follower has confidence in "going with the flow" and whether she has trust in my getting us back on and she doesn't try to force something to happen; whether I as am-leader have confidence in my partner that she'll stay with me and doesn't try to backlead (I've discovered that I'm almost blind to backleads on the comp floor!); and whether our partnership has already worked on "bail-out" tactics - what to do if anything/everything hits the fan (anything from wardrobe/shoe malfunctions to floorcraft if/when we're blocked out of our choreography.) O'course, there also has to be confidence in myself, as leader, that I can pull off something like that. If not, the "ultimate bail-out" (as last resort) is to stop and re-start (or do some kind of pose or hover before continuing dancing.)

 

[reb]

I agree with you, MrBroadway. If I danced the "wrong" figure by following what I felt was being led, then either (1) The Pro needs to teach me more about how to dance so that I can pick up the right lead at the right time and/or (2) The Pro needs to make sure the lead was correct and clear.

Most of the time it's (1) for me, but every so often (2) happens . Sometimes it's even a combination of (1) and (2).

Or course, sometimes I'm just out to lunch and dance the wrong thing, like if I'm distracted by a shiny object or somehow get my mind temporarily stuck dancing some ancient choreography from an old partnership.

Sounds like it's the lead's responsibility (whether Pro/Am or not . . .)

 

[reb]

to me this is the most exciting think about the evolution of my dancing recently...I am catching up...and it is about 25 % of the time that pro has something to fix now as well...or we need to have a talk about what I felt and how we can both tweak whatever we are doing...I am finding that newfound space is absolutely inspiring

That's a great sign of progress.

Hopefully you're anticipating 30%. Of course, it's not necessarily a straight line . . .

 

[Joe]

SHINY!!

Firefly fan?

 

[samina]

to me this is the most exciting think about the evolution of my dancing recently...I am catching up...and it is about 25 % of the time that pro has something to fix now as well...or we need to have a talk about what I felt and how we can both tweak whatever we are doing...I am finding that newfound space is absolutely inspiring

awesome report. sounds like you've hit a wave of critical mass, fasc

 

[etp777]

Now I have to go put depressed in the how are you thread Joe. only half a season of material and one movie to watch.

 

[elisedance]

And that's were the confidence factor comes in - whether pro-follower has confidence in "going with the flow" and whether she has trust in my getting us back on and she doesn't try to force something to happen; whether I as am-leader have confidence in my partner that she'll stay with me and doesn't try to backlead (I've discovered that I'm almost blind to backleads on the comp floor!); and whether our partnership has already worked on "bail-out" tactics - what to do if anything/everything hits the fan (anything from wardrobe/shoe malfunctions to floorcraft if/when we're blocked out of our choreography.) O'course, there also has to be confidence in myself, as leader, that I can pull off something like that. If not, the "ultimate bail-out" (as last resort) is to stop and re-start (or do some kind of pose or hover before continuing dancing.)

I wonder how well judges can sense the back-lead- probably sets off every bell in their bodies!! Hey, even I can see some of them. I think this is actually bad for the leader and its better to let him make errors than try to guide him out of them. Is there really anything wrong with the pose/hover and continue dancing? If I was the judge I would scratch any male pro/am that did not look like he was leading from beginning to end and score higher those that did even if they looked worse.