Dancing makes you smarter

[Dancing Irishman]

Honestly, my biggest peeves with writing about that study are:
- The study used only 469 participants and tested 17 factors for dementia risk; they were bound to find reduced risk correlated with something
- Drawing any prescriptive conclusions from the participants' chosen leisure activities ignores a whole lot of possible confounding variables

And to reiterate what snapdancer said, that quote is based on a whole lot of supposition. And it reiterates the inane idea noted elsewhere on the page that only social dancing involves split-second decision making.

Given how blatantly biased Mr. Powers is against non-social ballroom dancing (maybe as a survival tactic to justify his faculty position at Stanford?), I can't say I'm terribly surprised. His comparison of social, competitive, and exhibition ballroom here reads a little like a case study in straw man arguments (or at least like the author couldn't be bothered to ask a competitor or showcase dancer for any input into his writing).

 

[snapdancer]

Let's compare
A: dancing a showcase with your teacher, Vs
B: dancing on a crowded social dance floor with lots of different partners, some of whom you might not have danced with before.

Do you maintain that each requires the same amount of decision making?

 

[RiseNFall]

How about, "keeps you from losing your smarts"?

Given how blatantly biased Mr. Powers is against non-social ballroom dancing (maybe as a survival tactic to justify his faculty position at Stanford?), I can't say I'm terribly surprised. His comparison of social, competitive, and exhibition ballroom here reads a little like a case study in straw man arguments (or at least like the author couldn't be bothered to ask a competitor or showcase dancer for any input into his writing).

Just procrastinated starting all sorts of things by following the link above. Oh, my! I'd also like to know where he social dances with all of those always-forgiving partners??????

 

[Newdancer81]

Probably just my opposite bias as a follower, but I think leading is harder. You can often (note: not always) go on auto-pilot as follow and still cover mis-follows... on the other hand leading is like driving a racecar, you can't afford to let your mind wander for a split second.

Follows can cover their missteps? I think if the lead is good you can, but if you're not a good lead, then it's harder, so you have to make up for the lead/usually guy's mistake. And my mind does wander sometimes and my teacher gets mad at me lol.

Let's compare
A: dancing a showcase with your teacher, Vs
B: dancing on a crowded social dance floor with lots of different partners, some of whom you might not have danced with before.

Do you maintain that each requires the same amount of decision making?

I think doing a showcase with your teacher is so much easier than dancing with various people at a social as you have to navigate the floor, stay on time, somehow improvise if you're halfway through a pattern and move your feet while making sure your peripheral vision is working properly too.

 

[Zhena]

Given how blatantly biased Mr. Powers is against non-social ballroom dancing (maybe as a survival tactic to justify his faculty position at Stanford?), I can't say I'm terribly surprised. His comparison of social, competitive, and exhibition ballroom here reads a little like a case study in straw man arguments (or at least like the author couldn't be bothered to ask a competitor or showcase dancer for any input into his writing).

Although my competitive experience is limited to a couple of franchise events, I've been reading DF posts from competitors for years, so I have some knowledge of competitive dancing. My major experience is dancing socially. I have taken several workshops from Richard Powers and have heard him speak about the history of dance. His major focus is social partner dance. In addition to historical research he engages in field studies of current forms of vernacular dance, and is an excellent teacher. There is enough material in his areas of study to fully justify a faculty position at Stanford without the need for him to expand into the competitive arena.

Given my background and knowledge, I believe his comparison is accurate. I would like to know which statements in the article you think show blatant bias against non-social ballroom dancing, particularly given the final words of his article:

"Social, competition and exhibition ballroom dance are all united by a love of partnered dance. We may each have our preferences – that's only natural – but there is no need to dismiss anyone who doesn't share our preferences. Let's save our criticisms for people who are doing true harm in the world, not for someone whose passions merely differ from our own."

 

[JoeB]

Neither the graphic nor the scientific paper was specific to any form of dancing.

No, but line dancers can hardly get more demented than they already are.

 

[Zhena]

How about, "keeps you from losing your smarts"?


Just procrastinated starting all sorts of things by following the link above. Oh, my! I'd also like to know where he social dances with all of those always-forgiving partners??????

In his classes, he always emphasizes the need to work with whatever your partner gives you rather than demand that they conform to a rigid pattern. He tries to teach people to work together without force and without blame. I won't say his dancers ALWAYS meet this expectation, but I think it's a good place to start.

 

[rain_dog]

I'm smarter than everyone.

It looks like dancing does nothing for modesty, however.

 

[RiseNFall]

That's what he emphasizes in his classes, not necessarily the reality of social dancing.

"Rigorously standardized because competitors need to know exactly what technical details the judges want to see." The technique is there because it works in all aspects of dancing. The easiest to follow leaders are the ones with the best technique.

A lot goes on on the competition floor. The follower has to actually follow, not just perform the typically choreographed routine. Even if the steps stay the same, the execution is going to depend on the music being played (assuming the leader has strong musicality skills). The need to navigate well is even higher than on the social floor because you don't want the lines/shapes/movement to be negatively impacted. There is a huge amount of split-second decision making for the leader.

It is assumed that competitive dancers are going to make lots of "mistakes" on the floor, just like social dancers. Part of being a good competitor is having good "what are you going to do about it now?" skills, just as with a social dancer.

Honestly, I do a smaller range of steps social dancing than I do competitively because that's what most social leaders are comfortable leading.

It's just a very limited, narrow view of what competitive dancing is like. The things he is saying might be more true of poor competitive dancing, just as he does not advocate being the type of social dancer who criticizes their partner. I'm sure he knows what he's talking about in regards to the history of dance and I would also guess that his classes are excellent. I do both competitive and social dancing, more competitive at the moment, so I am familiar with both types of dancing.

 

[twnkltoz]

It looks like dancing does nothing for modesty, however.

I'm more modest than everyone, too.

 

[JoeB]

 

[Partner Dancer]

Reminds me of a much better song, certainly a danceable oldie...

 

[Partner Dancer]

Let's compare
A: dancing a showcase with your teacher, Vs
B: dancing on a crowded social dance floor with lots of different partners, some of whom you might not have danced with before.

Do you maintain that each requires the same amount of decision making?

Competition, showcase, and social dancing have overlapping as
well as complementary skills. Unfortunately, dancing in general
is taught or handed down as patterns, separate from the
underlying dynamics that really make them work.

The ability to dance competitively or in showcases (even at
"high" levels) doesn't give one the experience to extrapolate
those skills to (great) social dancing, where ability to
adapt/improvise is king. I've seen plenty of coaches who
can't dance comfortably with rank beginners (without turning
the social dance into a verbal lesson), because they can't
adapt themselves to the abilities of the beginner.

The ability to dance socially without having fundamentals
acquired in lessons (typically from instructors who compete
and push showcases) also limits one's abilities since one
wouldn't have the experience to interpolate from the
variety of movements one is randomly subjected to to
discern what skills (such as maintaining good body tone)
are truly useful (or harmful, such as being too stiff) and
what movements are superior or inferior.

The decision making (mental/physical development) in the
two cases have overlap but also lots of difference. In the
first case, the concentration is on the pre-meditated
execution of a routine with a single known partner. One
aims to achieve what was practiced and really attempts to
avoid deviation. In the second case, the concentration is
on whatever works, reacting to random situations, and
deviation is a given.

One really can't be an all-around dancer unless one spends
lots of time doing each type.

 

[Partner Dancer]

Honestly, I do a smaller range of steps social dancing than I do competitively because that's what most social leaders are comfortable leading.

Wouldn't you expect that, given the amount of practice with your
competition partner/pro?

You would be much better at driving your own (familiar) car than
someone else's car, able to handle much more treacherous
situations because you know how it behaves.

Even skilled social dancers tend to tone down and just do fairly
basic stuff because comfort/ease is prioriitized over risk/flair.
It's quality, not quantity.

 

[RiseNFall]

Wouldn't you expect that, given the amount of practice with your
competition partner/pro?

You would be much better at driving your own (familiar) car than
someone else's car, able to handle much more treacherous
situations because you know how it behaves.

Even skilled social dancers tend to tone down and just do fairly
basic stuff because comfort/ease is prioriitized over risk/flair.
It's quality, not quantity.

I was just responding to something said in the article--that you dance a wider range of steps patterns in social dancing.