Dancing Tango to Milonga and Vals

AndaBien said:
This seems like unusual advice to me. Dancing on 1 only is certainly the most common. I would say that using 1-3 is the normal other rhythm. I would not think that leaders use 12- very much at all, if ever.
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i've heard the skip '3' advice before, and seems to fit nicely for vals. it goes 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3... and if I step 1&2, I can follow it up by stepping on 3, or not, but it will always feel better to step on the following 1, so I can either step 1&23 1..., or I can step 1&2-1... the latter is less likely to feel like too many steps or rushed. You are right that dancing on 1 is common, which is really why holding 3 is needed in this instance.
 
AndaBien said:
Are you being the knave here? We're talking about vals, right?
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I was being ironic; its what you hear that matters not musical metre..

History (waltz)

There are several references to a sliding or gliding dance,- a waltz, from the 16th century including the representations of the printer H.S. Beheim. The French philosopher Montaigne wrote of a dance he saw in 1580 in Augsburg, where the dancers held each other so closely that their faces touched. Kunz Haas, of approximately the same period wrote that, "Now they are dancing the godless, Weller or Spinner."[1] "The vigorous peasant dancer, following an instinctive knowledge of the weight of fall, utilizes his surplus energy to press all his strength into the proper beat of the measure, thus intensifying his personal enjoyment in dancing".[2] The wide, wild steps of the country people became shorter and more elegant when introduced to higher society. Hans Sachs wrote of the dance in his 1568 Eygentliche Beschreibung aller Stände(1568).[1]

At the Austrian Court in Vienna in the late 17th century (1698) ladies were conducted around the room to the tune of a 2 beat measure, which then became the 3/4 of the Nach Tanz (After Dance), upon which couples got into the position for the Weller and waltzed around the room with gliding steps as in an engraving of the Wirtschaft (Inn Festival) given for Peter the Great.[3]

The peasants of Bavaria, Tyrol, and Styria began dancing a dance called Walzer, a dance for couples, around 1750. The Ländler, also known as the Schleifer, a country dance in 3/4 time, was popular in Bohemia, Austria, and Bavaria, and spread from the countryside to the suburbs of the city. While the eighteenth century upper classes continued to dance the minuet, bored noblemen slipped away to the balls of their servants

wiki-whatsit

(and the double entendre is not mine...)
 
Is it true that in the early phase of tango development, dancers danced Viennese Waltz and only later 'vals'? It makes perfect sense to me: the usual range of tempi would lend itself to VW, and with anyone that 'can' WV would work as well as anything else might (except that I'd only do it for a couple of bars at a time, probably ...).

I never have - there's rarely room - but it would be great fun to break off from an inner lane into the centre of the floor into fleckerls a contracheck and then fleckerls the other way, before rejoining everyone else. Probably no one else would dance with me all night - but hey!
 
UKDancer said:
Is it true that in the early phase of tango development, dancers danced Viennese Waltz and only later 'vals'? It makes perfect sense to me: the usual range of tempi would lend itself to VW, and with anyone that 'can' WV would work as well as anything else might (except that I'd only do it for a couple of bars at a time, probably ...).

I never have - there's rarely room - but it would be great fun to break off from an inner lane into the centre of the floor into fleckerls a contracheck and then fleckerls the other way, before rejoining everyone else. Probably no one else would dance with me all night - but hey!
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If I'm not mistaken, Vals tempo is closer to 210-230 bpm, whereas standard VW is about 180 bpm.
 
opendoor said:
That´s it :cheers: argentine vals isn´t in 3/4 time, folks!
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I frequently hear 6/8. I've no idea how it was notated, though. It makes more sense, to me, to feel a 'compound' metre, where it is equally valid to feel stress falling on a slow 1 & 2, rather than a quick 123 456.
 
We had a thread on the signature of old rhythmic tangos, too. Penned in 2/4 but felt as 4/4. Cannot find it any more.
 
And I finally found some thing that satisfied me regarding "canter rhythm" from 1922 text "Dancing Made Easy'.

The subject is "Canter Waltz".

This dance is walking to waltz time but walking most quietly and gracefully. There are two steps to the three counts of music. Step forward on 1 and make the second step between the 2 and 3 count. Give the first step the accent, although the steps are almost of the same value. See Diagram 1. It may, perhaps, help the student practising alone with the aid of the victrola to count 1-&, 2-&, 3-&, making the second step on the second &, until able to do the step smoothly.

http://www.ballroomdancertips.com/ballroomdancertips10.php

Cause, you know, I always felt I'm stepping on 1 and 3 when I do it.

BTW - same text is on line at this url
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/musdi:@field(DOCID+@lit(musdi048))
 
You get very much the same feeling when you subdivide 2 slow or 4 quick beats into 3 using 3:3:2 timing, so popular in early rhythmic tango and milonga.
 
As I've mentioned in other vals threads, hitting the 1 and the 2 then holding the 3 creates a feeling of suspension which can be interesting for waltz style/feeling.

Some orchestras will emphasize the 2 as well, which is even better when you hit it.
 
UKDancer said:
I never have - there's rarely room - but it would be great fun to break off from an inner lane into the centre of the floor into fleckerls a contracheck and then fleckerls the other way, before rejoining everyone else. Probably no one else would dance with me all night - but hey!
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Are fleckerls the VW thingies that are remarkably similar to giros? Back-side-forward-side-forward or somethng like that? I seem to remember, ages ago when I was making a stupid attempt at Standard, being introduced to fleckerls (or something) and not being able to break the automatic habit of doing a giro instead. Gave me no end of fits.

I'd dance with you if you switched to VW for a few bars! :-) It's always fun to mix things up. So long as you didn't switch holds on me. Oh...and I can't feel Standard weight changes. (I tune them out.)
 
Peaches said:
Are fleckerls the VW thingies that are remarkably similar to giros? Back-side-forward-side-forward or somethng like that? I seem to remember, ages ago when I was making a stupid attempt at Standard, being introduced to fleckerls (or something) and not being able to break the automatic habit of doing a giro instead. Gave me no end of fits.

I'd dance with you if you switched to VW for a few bars! :-) It's always fun to mix things up. So long as you didn't switch holds on me. Oh...and I can't feel Standard weight changes. (I tune them out.)
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They include crossing steps, both in front and behind, and rotate alarmingly quickly: two full turns over six steps. In the video clip posted by BTM, Mirko & Alessia dance them from about 0:37. Fleckerls are very hard to dance: it was a pity they chose such awful music! Giros are rather easier to do.
 
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