Dancing to the music

[JohnEm]

This sounds very like my own vague plan, but I think that I would do forward ochos first (after the 8CB), and only then introduce cross system with back ochos, but I really liked the idea of preparation for a milonga (and then attending one, together) as the culmination of the class. Could I ask you to say more about the content of that final session?

My response was going start like this:

At least we now know what your motivation is on here - the commercial
teacher in you means you will be soon teaching what you don't know,
just like many others.

Oh, it just did!

I'd hate to be at that milonga with a class of wooden tango "dancers"
all trying to do the 8CB and patterns starting at various numbers. Yuk!
They will dance with each other only anyway while possibly ruining the
floor for everyone else. My teachers held their own for their own students
at the end of every lesson sequence.

Where in all of this is mention of practice - two sessions per week minimum
to have any chance of this pace working to produce sufficient competency
and confidence to set foot in a milonga. Not that the 8CB is any preparation
at all for typical milonga conditions at least around here.

And before going on, where's the mention of listening to the music
both in the dance and when not dancing too? Intuitive understanding
first requires familiarity and it isn't remotely like anything heard before.

Then you went on:

My own experience of beginner classes is that the group will be too mixed in their knowledge/ignorance of social tango and in their expectations of what the class will deliver for the noble attempt at 'education' to stand any real chance of success.

Exactly - don't teach a group any bigger nor more mixed than
you can give individual attention to. Don't even call it a class?

An issue here for those of us that work in the dance industry

The first issue for me is that you work in the (commercial) dance "industry".

..... is that many of the students that gravitate towards us with an interest in AT do so with preconceptions based on their experience, most probably of Ballroom or other standardised partner dances. What brought them through the door wasn't an interest in social tango (and it is obvious from what they say that they know nothing at all about the dance and its baggage), but that they watched Vincent Simone & Flavia Cacace on Strictly Come Dancing and enjoyed their demonstration Show Tangos. They will tolerate two or three weeks of 'basic steps', but will be impatient if they're not dancing ganchos by week three, and are we going to do any lifts?

They won't be social tango dancers then.

Such raw material is quite challenging, but 'education' is not what they are going to pay for, but I still have studio hire to cover, and I have to eat.

You don't have to take their money and teach flash and trash.
This is just a cash cow to you. And how I hate "I have to eat" justification
which is no justification at all. We all have to eat, we can all make choices.
That's yours and I choose to disagree with it.

If they have a 'routine' by the end of 6 weeks, so that when they go to one of their general social dances and the DJ puts on one or perhaps two tango songs during the evening, they will be able to get up, and having wound the key fully, dance. If you happen to bump into them at a dance, years later, and the DJ puts on a tango song, they will still be dancing exactly the same 'routine', unless in the meantime they have invested further time and effort going to a teacher, who has taught them a 'flashier' routine. There's nothing I can do that will change them, and I'd be wasting my time even trying.

You know the potential social tango students are out there in other dance
communities. Not everyone is taken in by Strictly, Vincent & Flavia.

I know it isn't, but my thoughts are to try and do both simultaneously: to introduce a small basic vocabulary of tango actions, in a walking to music context, but with those actions 'standardised' into the figures which nearly 100% of tango dancers would recognise, even if they would prefer to say that their dancing of, say, a back ocho from a sidestep in cross system, before walking out to a follower's cruzada, wasn't a 'figure' but something that they had spontaneously 'improvised' (along with half the other people in the room, by some strange coincidence).

One or two will break out of this (I did for one but then I never found
it satisfactory in the first place), most won't because you will have attracted
the wrong kind of students.

My objective would be to get my students able to dance simply around the room, linking these actions by walking, weight changes and pauses (with the beginnings of musicality in their execution). That will be enough for some, and they will never return to a higher level class, but for those that do, I would want to deconstruct the 'standardised' figures as quickly as possible, to start builidng improvisatory competence using the same basic elements (but combined in lots of new non-standardised ways), and adding additional elements, so that their vocabulary grew in pace with their ability to speak the language of tango.

Simple, don't start with the 8CB at all.
From the start make it clear this is not a ballroom pattern dance.
But you won't do that because you see the money earning potential
of satisfying a perceived shallow need for "doing" tango rather than
dancing tango.

I'm not sure that I know what you mean, but lots of people who can 'do' something to a reasonable standard believe that it is self-evident that they (or anyone else) could 'teach' it as well, and this is just not so. Teaching is a skill, and there is a fundamental requirement that you can address the whole ability range of your group of students, and that you can offer material that appeals to the whole range of learning styles.

Tango is not a standardised dance, it's a very personal and individual one
but you are justifying shoe-horning it into a standardised class format.
You cannot standardise the people so you standardise the dance just as
the ballroom people did before.

Of course there is a fundamental requirement to address your students'
abilities, and your solution avoids that.

It makes me very cross (and this is not directed at you) to be 'denounced' when I say that I teach dancing. Apparently I might as well be a vending machine, dispensing dancing (and robotic dancing by numbers, too). Such an approach has nothing to do with the work of a trained, skilled and experienced teacher, and the attempts of some hobby dancers (and several tango teachers whom I have observed) to teach is laughable.

You might be not be a vending machine style teacher (and the evidence
of what you say does indeed say otherwise) but you are reducing tango
to a cardboard cut out imitation. You will end up teaching some of the look
and probably little of the feel.

And the 8CB is as near tango teaching by numbers as it gets.

I think your expectations of a tango teacher with a mixed beginners class is unrealistic.

I have no expectation of any tango teacher successfully teaching
a mixed beginners class.

The wider responsibility to introduce wannabe tango dancers to the tango community has to be shared by the tango community. The teacher has a role, but it's not a one-man-responsibility. I don't have a duty to 'deliver' fully rounded tango dancers to the next milonga, taking their place, quietly with their peers, wearing their shiny new Comme Il Faut shoes, and joining in the cabeceo and being models of good floorcraft and ambassadors for the tango way. Frankly, if the tango community (or a vocal minority of the tango community) were more welcoming of newcomers, and not so up-themselves, they might notice that they haven't used the cabeceo all night, and when they're on the floor they are flailing about, in all directions, and are an absolute nuisance to the beginners trying to move steadily around the line of dance in this 'walking with embelishments' dance they have just spent good money learning.

Love the rant - but that's not the point.
The point is that you seem to be hell-bent
on adding to the 4inch CIF flailing sisterhood.

Still, I already know I'm wasting my breath.

 

[UKDancer]

My response was going start like this:

At least we now know what your motivation is on here - the commercial
teacher in you means you will be soon teaching what you don't know,
just like many others.

Oh, it just did!

Well as you're just being offensive (and I have to assume you intended to be), I'll just say that you have failed to rumble me, I'm afraid.

I'm not 'on here' so that I can pick up enough 'tips' to be able to teach beyond my competence and to produce pastiche tango dancers. I'm also not in the least ashamed of being a 'commercial' teacher of dancing: it is my living, and I haven't noticed the annual round of visiting Argentinian teachers (you know, the ones with clip on pony-tail hair extensions and names that end in 'O') teaching free and for the love of it, come to think of it. None of them ever stick around long enough for the results of their work to be apparent, while I have to make my living in my own locaility month in and month out. If I couldn't satisfy the needs of my students, I soon wouldn't have any.

So while the rest of your post raises some interesting issues, I'll leave it there, but I can't resist this one (and I've run two of your comments together, not to distort the context, but for ease of response):

Simple, don't start with the 8CB at all.

You might be not be a vending machine style teacher (and the evidence
of what you say does indeed say otherwise) but you are reducing tango
to a cardboard cut out imitation. You will end up teaching some of the look and probably little of the feel.

And the 8CB is as near tango teaching by numbers as it gets.

I haven't advocated teaching the 8CB at all, actually, I was commenting on someone else's 'short course' syllabus. I would teach the cruzada action from walking, not as 'Step 5'. But that aside, if I could convey 'some of the look and probably little of the feel' of the dance in 6 weeks, I'd be absolutely delighted, particularly if I had succeeded in laying a good foundation for progression for the few that might want to go further.

 

[dchester]

This sounds very like my own vague plan, but I think that I would do forward ochos first (after the 8CB), and only then introduce cross system with back ochos, but I really liked the idea of preparation for a milonga (and then attending one, together) as the culmination of the class. Could I ask you to say more about the content of that final session?

A lot of this stuff could be done in a different order. I decided to get to back ochos earlier in the course because they are very common and they are difficult (and thus take lots of practice). I like to have cross system already done the prior week, so as not to have to introduce that concept at the same time they are learning back ochos. Also, I (truthfully) let them know that this will be the most difficult class of the series, and once they get it, they should have a sense of accomplishment. The next class, we go over it again, and then cover front ochos.

A lot of the stuff that I do in the final class, will have been touched upon in prior classes, so a lot of it is a review. I make sure people understand about tandas, cortinas, the cabeceo, floor craft, and etiquette. We spend more time on vals and milonga. We also do some floor craft drills. I also play some alternative music, to make people aware that some milongas will play alternative music.

Good luck with your class!!!

 

[AndaBien]

...A lot of the stuff that I do in the final class, will have been touched upon in prior classes, so a lot of it is a review. I make sure people understand about tandas, cortinas, the cabeceo, floor craft, and etiquette. We spend more time on vals and milonga. We also do some floor craft drills...

The first time I came back from BA I realized that my students needed to know how to dance in crowded spaces. Me too. I marked off about a quarter of the dance floor and made them practice in that. I suppose something like that is included in your floor craft skills.

 

[dchester]

The first time I came back from BA I realized that my students needed to know how to dance in crowded spaces. Me too. I marked off about a quarter of the dance floor and made them practice in that. I suppose something like that is included in your floor craft skills.

Yeah, the milonga is not the first place where you want to have experienced that (like what happened to me).

 

[dchester]

I haven't advocated teaching the 8CB at all, actually, I was commenting on someone else's 'short course' syllabus. I would teach the cruzada action from walking, not as 'Step 5'. But that aside, if I could convey 'some of the look and probably little of the feel' of the dance in 6 weeks, I'd be absolutely delighted, particularly if I had succeeded in laying a good foundation for progression for the few that might want to go further.

You are (of course) correct, as I was the one who said I teach it in week 3 of my 8 week beginners course, not you.

FWIW, I don't see any problem with trying to learning, pick up tips, or whatever, to try to make your class better. In fact, here is something I put together to help explain the various "systems" for walking (that I use on week 3 when also teaching the 8cb). Maybe it will be of some help to you.

And here is a higher resolution one for printing.
http://worcestertango.org/TangoWalking_Print.jpg

The second column (Parallel, outside open side) is what is used when doing the 8cb. Once they can do the 8cb, then the pattern is modified to teach walking to the cross from Cross system, outside open (column 4 in the graphic).

As with most any good class/teacher, you eventually have them take apart the patterns and apply the principles to their dance without doing the specific pattern(s).

 

[tangomonkey]

Talking about dancing in tight spaces. I went to a drop in class recently and the teacher had us do the 8cb in a very tight circle. Then we were told to vary the timing of the steps, still in a tight circle. That was a fun and valuable exercise. Real dancing just using the 8cb over and over again.

 

[UKDancer]

A lot of the stuff that I do in the final class, will have been touched upon in prior classes, so a lot of it is a review. I make sure people understand about tandas, cortinas, the cabeceo, floor craft, and etiquette. We spend more time on vals and milonga. We also do some floor craft drills. I also play some alternative music, to make people aware that some milongas will play alternative music.

You hadn't previously mentioned Vals or Milonga: you cover those in 6 weeks too?

This sounds very ambitious. I'd be interested to know what you cover, and, equally, whether others have a view about when and how to introduce those styles for the first time.

 

[dchester]

You hadn't previously mentioned Vals or Milonga: you cover those in 6 weeks too?

This sounds very ambitious. I'd be interested to know what you cover, and, equally, whether others have a view about when and how to introduce those styles for the first time.

OK, first it's 8 weeks, not 6. The classes last for 1.5 hours with a half hour of practica time right after (which at most half will utilize), but it gives extra time for questions, etc.

Introducing or exposing them to vals is probably more accurate. With vals, the first thing is to make sure that hear the slow beat (the 1 of the 1-2-3), then explain how since there are two quick beats in between each slow in vals (unlike tango), you can make all the steps work the same, by "throwing away" one of the quick beats (either the 2 or the 3). I then count out both options:

• 1 2 - 1 - - 1 2 - 1 - -
• 1 - 3 1 - - 1 - 3 1 - -

With Milonga, again I make sure they can hear the "slow" beat, while explaining that it is faster than in tango. I also recommend that when starting with milonga, that they use a style known as milonga liso, no quick steps (or traspies) and no pauses. I do demonstrate it, and then let them have at it.

Vals music gets snuck in a few places throughout the course, when doing something that involves stepping on only slow beats.

 

[tangomonkey]

OK, first it's 8 weeks, not 6. The classes last for 1.5 hours with a half hour of practica time right after (which at most half will utilize), but it gives extra time for questions, etc.

Introducing or exposing them to vals is probably more accurate. With vals, the first thing is to make sure that hear the slow beat (the 1 of the 1-2-3), then explain how since there are two quick beats in between each slow in vals (unlike tango), you can make all the steps work the same, by "throwing away" one of the quick beats (either the 2 or the 3). I then count out both options:

• 1 2 - 1 - - 1 2 - 1 - -
• 1 - 3 1 - - 1 - 3 1 - -

With Milonga, again I make sure they can hear the "slow" beat, while explaining that it is faster than in tango. I also recommend that when starting with milonga, that they use a style known as milonga liso, no quick steps (or traspies) and no pauses. I do demonstrate it, and then let them have at it.

Vals music gets snuck in a few places throughout the course, when doing something that involves stepping on only slow beats.

Where were you when I was staring out?!! You have a very ambitious program that I would have loved to start out with.

 

[Mosca Negra]

The point is that you seem to be hell-bent
on adding to the 4 inch CIF flailing sisterhood.

Comme Il Faut shoes are made with heels measured in centimeters. 10 centimeters is approximately 3.937 inches while 10.5 centimeters is 4.134 inches. Given the extreme pedantry in this forum I am surprised so many have posted without comment.

A member of the flailing sisterhood; whatever that is meant to imply since any flail is sure to be the result of a perfect lead.

 

[Madahlia]

Comme Il Faut shoes are made with heels measured in centimeters. 10 centimeters is approximately 3.937 inches while 10.5 centimeters is 4.134 inches. Given the extreme pedantry in this forum I am surprised so many have posted without comment.

A member of the flailing sisterhood; whatever that is meant to imply since any flail is sure to be the result of a perfect lead.

*smirk*


A perfect lead administered by El Hombrito with the clip-on ponytail, quite possibly.

 

[bordertangoman]

*smirk*


A perfect lead administered by El Hombrito with the clip-on ponytail, quite possibly.

where can I get one..need something to cover the thin patch on the back of my head..:lol:

we shall be covering flails in this weeks class......

the Spanglish term for them is Bodiceaos

 

[salthepal]

For me tango is an art form, that requires questioning and challenging oneself whenever you are on the dance floor.

While I can certainly appreciate where statement comes from, I don't know whether or not I agree. My focus is on enjoying myself. When I'm on the floor, with some awesome tango playing and a nice lady in my arms sharing that moment with me, my focus is more on enjoying that moment and making my dance partner enjoy herself. I don't think of myself as making art.

Keep in mind that I do like to improve technically, because I think it will make my dancing more effortless, and thus help me share that tango moment/tanda with my dance partner. Not necessarily because it'll help me make better art.