Do do we ever pay off the debt?

[pianistamediano]

But, if they play the 'authenticity' card, it has to be 4 (and they're usually less friendly).

True authenticity means at least an hour of rock 'n roll, merengue, cumbia, zamba, and swing tandas

 

[itwillhappen]

On this topic, think it's also relevant to mention that, for some (many?) men, partner dancing as a leader exercises a power fantasy. You get to exert control over multiple followers (i.e., women) with their willing consent.

We might think that, hearing about leading and following. But here in Northern Europe, significantly more women than men want to dance. So what do we think about some (many?) women?

 

[Brummbaer]

So what do we think about some (many?) women?

Biblically, Matthew 25:1-13. As the preacher asked in their sermon: Would you rather be in the light with the wise, or in the dark with the foolish?

But who are the wise, and who are the foolish? Many men don't seem very bright!

 

[opendoor]

..rather be in the light with the wise, or in the dark with the foolish?

I would choose the darkness, because as a wise man I would be a beacon of light for all those foolish!

 

[opendoor]

..bachata sensual is ...more zouk than bachata..

I've done both, so I cannot agree. My detailed comment is in another thread.

 

[Brummbaer]

I would choose the darkness, because as a wise man I would be a beacon of light for all those foolish!

Ah, but is mansplaining a wise option?

 

[Bailango]

We usually just have 3-song tandas.

These must be exceptions. I can say I have danced in many different cities (about two dozen?) and haven’t come across 3-tandas. I have recommended 3-tandas to local university milongas and other milongas were there are more beginner. Not only 3-tandas but also play tango music which is beginner friendly. This goes back to ways to lower barriers for new to tango to stay and eventually became a regular.

Speed-tandas (2 songs) have also been popular in some AT scenes. But, if they play the 'authenticity' card, it has to be 4 (and they're usually less friendly).

I highly doubt there is anything “authentic” about 4. You only need to play good danceable tango music mostly from GA to be “authentic”. Other wise there is always Neuvo.

The age demographic also has an impact together with number of couples. If younger (and solo), I wouldn't choose AT for its social scene, although some do try hard.

Why not. Most of milonga regulars in our scene are singles. In one part of the town (or large spread out metro area), they are overwhelmingly young and solo. While another milonga in the same part is all 60+. But the younger lot is more active and more visible. They also go to different milongas. The 60+ don’t.

The underlying reason - there aren't hordes of young males turning up looking to find the love of their life via a dance, and showing their skills! It's become something else where the old 'rules' get bent to suit.

Isn’t that a positive. Too much young testosterone can quickly become toxic when competing for attention of opposite gender.

Tango is not alone in diminished attraction among younger men. The rest of the dances are also suffering. The bachata sensual craze does attract some, but frankly it isn’t very big or wide spread. Like Kizomba craze is confined more to France, these dances so far have niche appeal (geographically). Unlike established social dances like tango or salsa.

 

[Bailango]

I've done both, so I cannot agree. My detailed comment is in another thread.

I am not sure if you are talking about the music or the dance. Musically there really isn’t any bachata sensual. The latter is a product out of Spain (post 2010) which is dancing more to pop remixes and other remixes with lot of body waves and body rolls. It is popular in Europe among the young cohort and mainly danced at festivals.

All those body waves and body rolls existed in other dances. Not like bachata sensual invented them. It just put them on steroids.

Zouk as danced in Europe is very different than one danced in Brazil. The zouk that I have seen locally and in Europe is a lot of body waves and contortions of body like the person is possessed. It is the only dance that I have seen attract a lot more women than men.

The latest news reports suggest that BS has got more zoukified and the BS dancers are complaining it is no longer bachata can’t miss the irony!!

 

[Bailango]

True authenticity means at least an hour of rock 'n roll, merengue, cumbia, zamba, and swing tandas

Exactly!!

I was thinking of that when I read 4.

 

[Rabbit]

No I am not holding it against you. It is an anomaly, that’s all. I do believe you found salsa difficult. Especially if you are music-first than dance-first, salsa with its polyrhythms can be difficult. Many salsa musicians find it difficult to dance and maintain consistent timing when dancing.

Probably because salsa music can be rhythmically interesting, but people just ignore it and dance the same pattern all the time.

 

[brujo]

I am not sure if you are talking about the music or the dance. Musically there really isn’t any bachata sensual.

In my area the sensual DJs lean a lot heavier on the urban influenced sound from reggaeton people like Pinto Picasso or DJ Husky whereas the more traditional events are mostly Dominican like Zacarias Ferreira or Joan Soriano.

The vibe is probably the same way some events advertise traditional vs. alt tango. Where nowadays in my area I see people leaning more towards wanting more of the traditional feel in bachata and weirdly seeing a decay in the bachata scene ( ICE activity / Covid hasn’t really helped the scene either ).

Which to me brings me an interesting question around authenticity and how tango also feel like they went through a few waves in the way it is taught and danced. And as a newbie it’s a bit confusing. Is the way that folks like Neveirra or DNI decomposed tango for teaching different than the more Freudian / apprenticeship model you hear described from the older maestros? Rise and fall of tango Nuevo etc. Are bands like Otros Aires / Bajofondo / Gotan Project considered detrimental?

 

[opendoor]

..see people leaning more towards wanting more of the traditional feel in bachata and weirdly seeing a decay in the bachata scene

I'll soon be 70 years old. Therefore, believe me, what is declared traditional bachata today was once forcibly introduced to distinguish itself from the once traditional current. In other words, traditional means modern, artificial, trendy. I don't mean to offend you, but as an Asian, you should be more education-oriented. Thus follow me, I'm German!

..teaching different than the more Freudian / apprenticeship model..

First of all, Freud is completely out of place here. Although he was an innovator in the field of psychotherapy, all my role models (Frankl, Moreno) quickly distanced themselves in their early twenties from him because his approach was untenable.

..as a newbie it’s a bit confusing. Is the way that folks like Neveirra or DNI decomposed tango for teaching different.. from the older maestros?

You've already mentioned the answer. Naveira and DNI revolutionized the teaching methods, but not the content. The old maestros' method was simply nauseating: sink or swim. I myself worked as a teacher for many years; Naveira was the salvation of tango (although I don't like his dancing). When I started tango, I was fortunate enough to experience three of the old masters of the pista Their teaching method was imitation, never analysis, never understanding, never abstraction.

 

[brujo]

First of all, Freud is completely out of place here. Although he was an innovator in the field of psychotherapy, all my role models (Frankl, Moreno) quickly distanced themselves in their early twenties from him because his approach was untenable.

Freud as in learning something took a long time just like the many year psychoanalysis approach vs shorter modern therapy that is like five sessions and you’re good. Same as in the way that a lot of people described learning tango as being shown stuff over and over again in the past in a more apprenticeship model vs the more pedagogical stuff we have today

 

[brujo]

I'll soon be 70 years old. Therefore, believe me, what is declared traditional bachata today was once forcibly introduced to distinguish itself from the once traditional current. In other words, traditional means modern, artificial, trendy. I don't mean to offend you, but as an Asian, you should be more education-oriented. Thus follow me, I'm German!

wtf does that mean. I was there when bachata was just when it was side to side grinding break from salsa and played next to merengues and cha cha. I might be new to tango but been dancing when bachata rosa was th new craze.

When they say traditional nowadays is going back to the Dominican cities and seeing how it is done differently in the different cities and taking that out to a broader worldwide scope. I think it’s pretty disrespectful to just assume whatever you believe this to be.

 

[opendoor]

Freud.. is like five sessions and you’re good..

We must not agree. You must not take advice. If you'd prefer, I'll ignore your questions in future.