But isn’t this true of a lot of art forms that have been passed down without didactic method of teaching. I am going wider than tango to include all art forms. Especially those that are cultural or tied to specific cultures. If didactic mechanism never existed then any attempts to introduce will raise objections - what’s included and what’s left out.
Do do we ever pay off the debt?
- Thread starter itwillhappen
- Start date
Was easy to borrow this clip from another thread:
There are a lot of clips of how domicanos on the island dance locally in above. Which is also how I remember other videos shot of bachata dancing in DR.
While what happens in EU is less likely or not at all to influence how it is danced on the island, we can’t deny that back and forth of the Dominicans between USA and DR can have impact. The USA based Instructors would visit DR to bring back to teach bachata in the USA (mid-late 2000s). A lot of these USA based instructors were either Puerto Ricans or Dominicans by heritage. I doubt there was any money to be made teaching bachata in DR pre-2005. To the best I can tell teaching bachata in DR never got institutionalized. Nor have people flocked to DR (in any significant numbers) to learn Bachata, like they do to Cuba for salsa and BsAS for tango.
What this has resulted in is “authencity” claims that can be partly true and partly questionable. If something was never formally taught in DR and then the instructors outside import what they experienced first hand or second hand to formally teach, plenty can get lost in that translation (of dance from the way locals dance in DR to teaching outside how it is danced).
I know people and instructors who claimed it was “authentic” the way you described dancing it in mid/late 2000s. Most of it was organic as you saw on the dance floor how similar is dancing and try to do the same. That’s how I remember people in salsa clubs picking up bachata since no one was teaching it. Then salsa performance teams tried to create bachata performance teams. Then came the start of first bachata festivals followed by formal classes for bachata (at least in the USA). But I know people who had barely learnt bachata opening classes in ISA, Europe and rest of the world.
P.S - if you recall back in 2000s the hip action or hip bump on the 4 (end of sidestep before changing to start movement to opposite side) was popular. Everyone tried to do it. It was told that’s authentic. But the tap replaced it soon after. Many in DR would just tap.
I rarely come across 4-song tango tandas except in some larger metropolises, otherwise '3' predominates. There are many justifications made for '3' - typically more followers, so it gives more opportunity to dance, and to dance with others. Speed-tandas of 2 can also work well.
Not is '4' more authentic and traditional than no-cortina, or '3'. The cortinas evolved via recorded music, collecting feed for dances, and commercial breaks on radio.
But there's sometimes some pendant, possibly influencing the venue, who insists on 4 as immutable and 'traditional'. Wiser TDJs adjust to the environment.
opendoor
Forum Master
Exactly!True authenticity means at least an hour of rock 'n roll, merengue, cumbia, zamba, and swing tandas
Only want to add that during the Golden Age of Tango no vals or milonga tandas were played.
I think all dances go through evolutions and/fusion stages over time.The latest news reports suggest that BS has got more zoukified and the BS dancers are complaining it is no longer bachatacan’t miss the irony!!
Totally agree. Except to me Bachata Sensual is a pretender and cultural appropriation. It is not evolution of bachata
. The evolution of bachata was stage performances where choreography borrowed moves from salsa. It would have been too boring to present side to side plain vanilla bachata as a performance piece In early days the instructors were trying to attract people to their workshops. So they would add an adjective to Bachata. Then moves from other dances would be adapted to Bachata. I used to know the instructors who coined various names, like Urban Bachata or Bachata Urbana, etc.
Bachata Sensual was a different animal invented in Spain.
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
Very common here.
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
Hard to tell. They don't get played at traditional AT events. Some of the contemporary "traditional" orchestras do though.
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
I think both are applicable. "Pedagogy" has improved but apprenticeship is needed in order to put it into practice. Improved teaching methods don't eliminate the need for personal practice and training. It still takes years to understand the dance and dance it well. That part can't really be taught, although I suppose it can be imparted if you really apprentice with one teacher over a long period of time.
Totally agree. Except to me Bachata Sensual is a pretender and cultural appropriation. It is not evolution of bachata
In early days the instructors were trying to attract people to their workshops. So they would add an adjective to Bachata. Then moves from other dances would be adapted to Bachata. I used to know the instructors who coined various names, like Urban Bachata or Bachata Urbana, etc.
Bachata Sensual was a different animal invented in Spain.
Surely tango is at least as much of a mess with stage performances borrowing moves from other dances because it would be too boring otherwise, instructors adding random adjectives to tango to attract people to workshops, and encuentros being some weird thing invented in Europe.
Mixed perspective. When younger in AT I longed for some more contemporary music, but it's not as danceable. Nowadays I like Pugliese, Fresedo, D'Arienzo, some Canaro, Troilo, etc, and I like some by El Cachivache. Also other contemporary bands. I've danced to some Gotan, Otros Aires and Bajafondo. Like most music genres, some is subjectively ok, but I personally find it less pleasurable than older music written for dance. I don't find all the old AT music 'great' either! Some should have remained hidden (but maybe that's also the recording and lack of processing).
Is it detrimental? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. At least it puts AT music in the public eye - but perhaps as much as Strictly/DWTS, and few in social AT capitalise on that. A few milongas I attend more regularly include an occasional 'contemporary' tanda - some good; some best forgotten. Sometimes ohers appreciate those choices.
pianistamediano
Forum Master
Contemporary but still ostensibly "traditional" (in some way) orchestras include:
Tango Bardo, La Juan D'Arienzo, Romantica Milonguera, Andariega, Orquesta Típica Sans Souci, Solo Tango Orchestra, Color Tango, Fabio Hager Sextet (bit old), Cuarteto Soltango, Sexteto Cristal, Fervor de Buenos Aires, Misteriosa Buenos Aires, Orquesta Típica Tanturi, Orquesta Típica Pichuco, Pablo Valle Sexteto, Orquesta Social Tango.
Others less traditional include Sexteto Andiamo, El Cachivache, La Santa Calavera, Amores Tangos, Duo Fuertes Varnerin, Orquesta Típica Fernando Fierrez, Hyperion Ensemble, Conjunto Berretin, Beltango, Las Bordonas...
pianistamediano
Forum Master
Muy main problem with Otros Aires/Gotan/Bajofondo is that they tend to meander around and never get to a point; it would fine if the tracks weren't over five minutes long. They're good vehicles for encouraging experimentation in movement, I suppose, but they don't inspire me to dance.
brujo
Well-Known Member
There was a pretty neat playlist on Spotify that included a few of the bands you @pianistamediano mentioned but it’s neat to see them broken down like that New Tango Orchestras
Conjunto Berretin is local to me. They add a bit of Balkan or Turkish tunes once in a while but it is what you would mostly consider regular tango and it’s always a riot watching them play at events like Valentango.
It’s pretty interesting how often you hear the shock from the older people at the milongas they play in like “why is there a drumset?”. But I guess the definition of traditional is different person to person. I was chatting with a 80+ year old gentleman from Argentina and he said “real tango doesn’t use saxophones”. I guess he’s not a Piazolla fan.
Conjunto Berretin is local to me. They add a bit of Balkan or Turkish tunes once in a while but it is what you would mostly consider regular tango and it’s always a riot watching them play at events like Valentango.
It’s pretty interesting how often you hear the shock from the older people at the milongas they play in like “why is there a drumset?”. But I guess the definition of traditional is different person to person. I was chatting with a 80+ year old gentleman from Argentina and he said “real tango doesn’t use saxophones”. I guess he’s not a Piazolla fan.