Yes, all true. And this still doesn't disprove my point. We're getting somewhere...
This just supports my point — disregarding medical concerns or life getting in the way, if they're still getting dances and enjoying themselves, they wouldn't quit, or just go to an event where the demographic is older. Salsa is a younger woman's game.
You are insinuating that women quit because they stop getting dances. That’s not true. Most of the reasons for quitting has nothing to do with not getting dances. It is more to do with starting family, or outgrowing going out dancing till 2am during the weekdays. Salsa is more hectic danced to fast tempo music. At festivals the older women get as much dances as the younger ones.
Personally, I don't hear about followers in tango quitting in their 40s; it's more 50s or 60s or above. Then again, YMMV.
Usually people start tango when they are in 40s. Tango is more sophisticated and more difficult dance than salsa. Its slower tempo is more attractive to older people than salsa’s uptempo (for dancing)
I don't think you get what I'm talking about — I'm speaking specifically about venues in either tango or salsa with a mix of demographics. How the heck would age discrimination occur if they're all old already?? Beyond some age, the difference is academic. Maybe you could argue that men in their 60s would rather dance with women in their 60s than 80s, but all I've seen in tango events I DJed for with that particular demographic is that unless the woman/man is infirm or just a bad dancer, they dance just as much as everyone else.
There is no extra age discrimination in salsa than other dances or walks life. When a dancer isn’t good and old, you can’t blame age discrimination. That is true whether it’s salsa or tango.
Obviously, if we're talking about age discrimination, we must consider only events/venues where there is a good mixture of ages, what I would say spans at least 50% older and above. (For example, people in their 30s to people in their 50s).
20 year span isn’t wide spread. From dancing perspective those in 50s dancing with those in 30s is fairly common in all dances I know. When venue has a good mixture of dancers there generally is less discrimination.
I've seen a lot of those events in tango, and ceteris paribus, a leader will choose to dance with a younger follower. I've seen older followers that were great (speaking from personal experience) who sit down for an hour while younger followers dance almost non-stop.
In follower heavy scene that may be true. In leader heavy scene all followers are dancing. May be it is also challenge of not enough leaders to go around.
I recall you defending the right of people to dance with whom they prefer. While I have always argued for people doing their bit for greater good of tango community.
I've seen disgusting men in their 60s gravitate towards the pretty young things and I've seen them standing around, having their cabeceos ignored.
What do you mean by disgusting men in their 60s. What is disgusting about them ? Their age or they come across as creeps.
Their preference to dance with younger ladies is not too different that other types of preferences about whom to dance with
I've been ignored by older dancers because of my relative youth too. That's reverse age discrimination for you.
In my scene younger male dancers are popular with older ladies. Mostly because they happen to be good dancers in first place. There are milongas where I am the youngest dancer.
What kind of discrimination is it when a visiting dancer doesn’t get asked because they are not a known face.
When comparing tango to salsa, it's disingenuous to compare something like an """elite""" (lmao) marathon to a regular, local neighborhood party in Havana. The tango equivalent would probably be Club Sunderland. You'll see whole families go out there and dance with each other and their friends. Age isn't really a factor. So we should compare events with similar demographics.
Problem is the event types are very different in Tango and Salsa. It is not easy to make apples to apples comparison. That was my point. And when you can’t make apples to apples comparison, the rest of the comparisons (e.g. age discrimination) are harder to make.).
For my part, I only developed this opinion after speaking with tango followers who've danced salsa, bachata and/or kizomba.
You can’t compare experiences in salsa with those in bachata and kizomba. Bachata and Kizomba is a whole different world than salsa.
In my book to validate experiences and to make them count a dancer needs to be immersed in the scene to equal length and depth.
A salsa follower or leader talking about his/her experience at tango for a few months as a beginner after being a salsa dancer for 10 or 15 years is to be taken with a grain of salt.
Experiences as a new to the scene will be biased by having a decade of experience in different dance form. That controversy about zouk dancer and her first time experience at milonga in the NYC proves my point. While we who are immersed in tango scene know about cliquishness and snobbishness, her experience was more a failure of lack of understanding of Milonga (culture) and her friend setting her up for failure in first place.
They've told me stories about aging out of these dances, and they've danced everywhere from Cali to New York. They all mentioned that tango, despite existing age discrimination in some/many events, is still much kinder to them.
Did you ask them why ? What causes aging out?
It has less to do with being discriminated because of age and more to do having to keep up with younger women.
Unfortunately salsa demands a lot of athleticism from the followers than from the leaders. Most leaders in salsa tend to dance physically than musically. Many leaders in salsa won’t even step. The follower doesn’t have that luxury. This can wear out followers as leader after leader is putting them through wringer. Especially when they realise follower is a good dancer. They will try to throw kitchen sink of moves they know at her. Whether they have mastered leading them or not.
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. While most people find salsa far easier and fun than tango (during the initial phase).
You'll hold that against me for the rest of my life. Maybe I'll find something else to rub your nose in, high Voleos? Colgadas, by chance? But you know I've successfully cleared the salsa hurdle. And I did it by way of playing music. And if we apply that criterion, maybe we can reach an agreement. And now, just to annoy you, I find European bachata sensual much more original than the so-called authentic bachata dominicana, which is currently experiencing a renaissance