Embrace

[dchester]

Realisticallly, comfort for both us is more important than the how or where of where the arms end.

We have a winner!!!

OK, the MODs can close this thread now.

 

[bordertangoman]

We have a winner!!!

OK, the MODs can close this thread now.

A Buddhist monk said that to sit in mediation the lotus position was desireable, but teaching westerners who do not sit on the floor and and have stiff legs, he suggested the chrysanthemum position; which is sitting any way comfortably with your back straight...

 

[AndaBien]

...I find it hard to believe that any good embrace should actually hurt!

Right you are - it won't.

 

[AndaBien]

... basically defined the difference between open and close embrace by reference to the follower being either in the crook of the leader's elbow or of his wrist, and that seems very simple to understand...

They say there are only two types of people: those who believe there are only two types of people, and those who don't.

 

[Spitfire]

Swango

Woops, meant as new thread, lol!

 

[Peaches]

My former teacher always used to describe the man's embrace as cradling the woman's ribcage between his bicep on one side an his fingers embracing her other side, and his forearm parallel to the floor. As BTM mentioned, though, this isn't always possible. (Much like it isn't always possible or comfortable for a girl to have her left arm/hand around the leader's neck.) In the end, I've always understood directions of that sort, or any other sort, to be expressions of the starting point for the embrace...or the ideal, if you will. The point being, it's not so much getting the woman to fit between bicep and arm, so much as "snuggling close" instead of the guy's right elbow sticking out (Ballroom style?), of wrapping the arm as far as realistically possible around her torso instead of having his hand on her left shoulder(-ish), and of keeping the forearm up instead of drifting down to her lower back (or worse!).

 

[LoveTango]

Every one is different, so it comes down to becoming sensitive enough to be able to detect how the leader may be trying to set the embrace, as well as being sensitive to him trying to change it.

Yes! At first, I didn't get your point. But, just a couple of days ago, my teacher demonstrated to me how a slight shift of embrace can change the connection and resulted in different style of dance.

 

[LoveTango]

LT, we are tango dancers: so when the music starts he should/must feel that you want more. But when the music stops it is over at once. And make it absolutely clear then, that these moments are over. Simply that´s it.




Always change the position of your left hand, but caress everything you got in tough with: start at the deltoid muscel, switch to his shoulder blade, then up to his neck, then round his neck, back to the deltoid, then slip down to his biceps and so on. In milonguero style the main position for your hand is his neck, in salón style it is his shoulder. Dont be an ice mummy on the dance floor. I would immediately stop dancing with you if you would feel like petrified.

I should not feel like petrified, but I dont' think I would "caress". When a leader frequently shift hand position, I get distracted.

 

[LoveTango]

I wouldn't worry too much about the embrace and people thinking you're there for anything more than dance. Most people get it, and are only there to dance. Some people are just idgits, and there's not much you can do about it. Watch your own actions (flirting), and be direct.

As for your embrace itself... Don't hang on your partner--support your own arms, instead of requiring them to hold them up for you. You can gently hug, but don't clamp. Don't grab with your right hand (you're a follower, right?)--having your circulation cut off by someone gripping your hand too tightly sucks. You can move your left arm as you feel comfortable. I usually start out around the guy's neck, but then will move to his back, or side, or shoulder...and often back to his neck..as I feel comfortable during the song. No biggie. If you're having problems with allowing that arm to move to deal with when the guy wants to change the embrace (open it or close it), then I suggest taking some lessons.

Aside from the arm, don't shrink away from your partner's body. One of my pet peeves is dancing with guys who ostensibly want a close embrace but then try everything to pull away from me. Maybe it's my boobs, I dunno , but whatever it is it annoys the [poop] out of me. Either dance close, and give me your body and your chest to connect with, or dance open. You've got to be the same way. Learn to give back into that embrace with your body. Not sticking your chest out, rooster-style, but bringing your whole center to him. I sometimes thinking about connecting my spine to the man's spine.

Keep in mind that, although you don't want distracting extraneous movement going on, that you don't have to be completely wooden from the hips up. This depends a lot on the leader (if the leader is wooden, there's not a whole lot you can do IME). But your leg movement comes from higher up in your torso, and you can move your torso to the music and the lead, and you can change how you hold your body (stiff and aggressive v. fluid and gentle) to match the music, and can even move your shoulders a bit (within reason). The music and the movement can, and should IMO, take over your entire body. That's how you avoid being wooden.

I suggest taking lessons in general. The embrace is, IMO, one of the most fundamental aspects of AT, and it's something you really want to be good. It is worth taking the time and getting good instructions on how to develop yours.

Thank you, Peaches. Your suggestions make sense.

 

[LoveTango]

No matter what the style is, every dance has to have a connection somewhere, and that is where the lead must come from. Try to figure out where your partner is making the connection and connect back to that spot. It may change. That is to say, connect with your partner in the same way (strength, location, style) he is connecting with you.

Yes. I think you hit the point. It is a little difficult here in the US. I heard that in Argentina, you can immediately tell what style would be used as soon as you get to the door of the milonga.

 

[LoveTango]

The leader couldn't care less about a warm embrace. The thing is just that he has to perceive that you're comfortable, confident, relaxed within his embrace. As long as he feels you unsafe, tense, fearful, unhappy to be there, encased, unsure, not dedicated, you prevent him from dancing.

Yes. Thank you.

 

[LoveTango]

Find a teacher admired by followers for a good embrace and have a few private lessons with him. Tango knowledge transmits from body to body.

At a practica, ask for feedback from a good close-embrace leader.

Learn to lead a little bit in close embrace and lead those "followers who know how to embrace". You will feel what you need to do yourself.

Dance a lot in close embrace, so it stops being "an issue" and you can relax more.

It is interesting that I did seek out two male teachers with hope to learn a bit more about embrace, but neither actually showed me. The first teacher taught me to apply more resistance to my right hand (to give back energy), the other teacher taught me to maintain a chest connection.

Also at practicas, I am very open to suggestions, and I often get contrary advices. Now I think, style does matters here. We need to first understand what style we are trying to follow, which usually defines the type of connection and then....

 

[LoveTango]

LT how do you feel in the embrace when you are dancing milonga. I feel that this is when the embrace is closest and changes the least.

If you are fine during a milonga and you are more worried about the change in the embrace when dancing tango, in my opinon this is really the reponsiblity of the leader, although there are some adjustments the follower will need to do to help make the transistion smooth.

Though difficult at the beginning, I feel quite comfortable with chest connection now. Occasionally I do open, but not very good, I tend to lean a little more forward than open requires for the energy flow.

My main issue is my "hug" is not good. My left hand is not very active.

 

[LoveTango]

Forget about the embrace, and think about the connection. In my experience followers think too much about the hug, and the arms. Just like leading is from the body so is the embrace. In close embrace the arms are mostly decoration, in open embrace they are communication organs, like an ants feelers, they are never(well, rarely) used to actually hold onto each other.

In general just disbelieve when people give you advice on what you can do to make the embrace better - when somebody who dances with you says there is something wrong they are always right, when they tell you how to make it better they are almost invariably wrong. There are very good dancers that i have never been able to have a comfortable fitting dance with, and there are people with objectivly horrible form (sticking out ellbows, left arm oddly angled, shoulderblades popping out...) that felt very pleasant to me. So the folling suggestions are highly subjective, and no matter what you do there will be >0 people who love it, and >0 people who hate it.


always try to maximise the area on which your arm touches your partners arm/body, and to minimize the amount of force you are transmitting to your partner. in general if the alignment of the bodies changes the embrace should not resist this, but simply change accordingly. The bodies define the shape of the couple, and the arms follow that shape.

A good exercise to to figure out how the embrace works is what homer calls the teakettle - the leader does the teakettle (like in the childrens rhyme - left hand in the standard embrace position, right hand resting on his right hip), and the follower embraces normally. And then dance.
Similarly dancing without embrace at all (i.e. leading either by sight for open embrace or by body contact in close embrace) gives insight into what the embrace can and can not do.

YMMV and IMHO and this advice is given purely for entertainmnet and novelty purposes and should not be considered to be applicabe to actual dancing by actual human beings

Gssh

Yes. I read your advice a few days ago, didn't quit get the point. Now I understand. Very good advice! Thank you.
And I will dis-apply your advice.

 

[jantango]

Don't worry about splitting hairs... Embrace your partner naturally as you would hug a friend. Every man dances his personal style. Get comfortable as possible and enjoy the ride. The more you dance with a variety of partners, the sooner you will find what works for you.

And yes, as soon as you arrive at the door of a milonga in buenos Aires, you know how you will dance...embraced. Tango IS an embrace in BA.