Embrace

[LoveTango]

Don't worry about splitting hairs... Embrace your partner naturally as you would hug a friend. Every man dances his personal style. Get comfortable as possible and enjoy the ride. The more you dance with a variety of partners, the sooner you will find what works for you.

And yes, as soon as you arrive at the door of a milonga in buenos Aires, you know how you will dance...embraced. Tango IS an embrace in BA.

I wish that someday I get to dance in BA, Jan.

 

[LoveTango]

Note that there is very little about the arms there. If you are sharing weight, the arms are also irrelevant.

Note also that some men will... tell you that you are "leaning" on them. (It took me a while to become comfortable with the closeness involved here, but it's one of the things that makes aplidao so special.)

I get your point, Steve. I also learn this from a visiting teacher a couple of days ago.

It is interesting that just as I get use to the forward chest connection, I was told that not to "lean" will make my dance lighter. So I do not share weight now. It is perplexing at time.

 

[LoveTango]

I was taught to allow the woman to set the distance within the embrace, and her to set position, either apilado, or the variations within salon style (which range from parallel to V shaped) so you can dance within your comfort zone.

For me the biggest thing that defines a woman with a good embrace is that she feels ... searching for a word - committed to the embrace. The Argentines say that to dance tango you should "entregarse", ...

Yes. I think one of my strength is that I do "commit" myself to the dance and embrace.

It is particularly puzzling for me when a leader let me to set the distance. In such case, we are usually timidly start with a half open. Sometimes, venture into closed embrace, sometime would be a non-committal embrace from beginning to end, particularly if we are strangers to begin with. I would see the same man dancing with another lady in close embrace. May I safely guess that I was responsible for the loose embrace?

 

[LoveTango]

Moment arm (pun intended). Connecting the bodies with the help of the arm helps you make a semi-rigid body from two independent bodies in a way that is hard without the help of the arms.

Unless you happen to have a prehensile torso (well, actually, come to think of it, I have a prehensile torso with prehensile appendages conveniently situated outside to maximalise the moment arm. I think my wife refers to them as "arms").

You don't always need all the arms and sometimes one partner doesn't even need any arms (in close embrace with one follower arm wrapped completely over the shoulder to the other side of the back, the leader can actually dance with both arms dropped and passive). But I have yet to see an embrace that works with *no* arms, unless ones on which the eyes are used to get cues (and I don't like these at all). But then, I'm not ready to enter the New Age, so I can't feel all those vibrations emanating from my dance partner .

I did see people practicing with only chest connection, no arms. It must have worked.

 

[LoveTango]

Now lots of tango teachers also talk about frame, but it's been my anecdotal observation that the majority of tango teachers who talk about frame, are performers. There approach is different and with good reason.

Probably when the connection shifted from chest to the arms, the frame is necessary for leading/communication.

 

[LoveTango]

...
the second teacher said "You must get your arm right around her ribs so your hand reaches the other side." which is an ideal, but often impractical; since if her chest/ribcage/torso is large i won't be able to put my arm around her; if her front to back dimension is too large, I may not be able to bend my elbow. So to acheive this i would need a prejudice toward ladies of a certain girth and no more.

Realisticallly, comfort for both us is more important than the how or where of where the arms end.

Exactly. Or you have to be picky about partner's dimensions.

 

[sixela]

I did see people practicing with only chest connection, no arms. It must have worked.

Depends on what you call "work". It's useful as an exercise (to learn to focus on the partner) but as I said you need at least one arm to make it work completely so as to get the timing between partners and very subtle leads completely correct. I'd challenge anyone to get that very subtle back-and-forth rocking in double time inserted in an ocho cortado right when doing that exercise, to give just one example, or for followers to know exactly how much time they have for adornos.

I can probably hop to the greengrocer on one leg; it doesn't mean that I should do that every day .

 

[sixela]

It is particularly puzzling for me when a leader let me to set the distance. In such case, we are usually timidly start with a half open.

That statement is particularly puzzling to me: usually, a negotiation like that with me is "I'll let you come as close to me as you're comfortable". In other words, I'll keep gradually making the embrace closer and closer until the follower makes firm contact on my right side and doesn't allow me any closer because we've already become one single rigid body. Perhaps you don't see that as "a leader letting you set the distance" but that is exactly what he does.

Of course it's not "I'll just let my arms dangle by my side and wait until you plonk yourself somewhere and that's where we'll end up relative to each other". So perhaps we're agreeing violently.

A leader who doesn't let you set the embrace is one that yanks you closer regardless of the signals you'd send, or who doesn't give you the time to respond and negotiate. I've never seen any follower I know who likes that.

A leader who doesn't let a follower come close is one who will refuse to fully embrace a follower when she's too close and/or will actively prevent her left arm from reaching where she'd like it. I've never seen a follower resent it as much, but I have seen couples awkwardly negotiating an embrace for a minute or so when the woman wants to dance closer than the man is prepared to allow.

 

[sixela]

Realisticallly, comfort for both us is more important than the how or where of where the arms end.

But where the arms end up (or at least where they end up on the leader's right side) will have a direct influence on comfort.

I see too many leaders who let their arm sag so much that it's impossible for the followers forearm to make good contact with their upper arm (and even though that's needed in that particular embrace; as I said, in some embraces in which the follower reaches around the leader enough, that arm _is_ indeed irrelevant).

Sometimes it leads to embraces where the leader's right hand and the follower's left hand are the points of contact and there's enormous amounts of slack and wiggle room. Surely that's not comfortable...

And with a lot of hand contact on the follower's back lower than the shoulder blade, a follower will _not_ be allowed to dissociate upper and lower body (in fact the leader may start leading the lower body directly, instead of leading the upper body and letting the follower's lower body react organically). Sure, that can kind of "work" but as a follower I'd find that _extremely_ suffocating.

 

[bordertangoman]

But where the arms end up (or at least where they end up on the leader's right side) will have a direct influence on comfort.

that was my point. i observe that some people put their arm where they think or have been told it should go and dont take into account relative heights.

And with a lot of hand contact on the follower's back lower than the shoulder blade, a follower will _not_ be allowed to dissociate upper and lower body

I have seen that position been danced with little problem. it can work for a tall leader and a short follower but midback is possible.

Gaia and Leandro for example; his hand moves around a bit and its quite low at times.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z06tRSyLpJM

 

[JohnEm]

that was my point. i observe that some people put their arm where they think or have been told it should go and dont take into account relative heights.

I have seen that position been danced with little problem. it can work for a tall leader and a short follower but midback is possible.

Gaia and Leandro for example; his hand moves around a bit and its quite low at times.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z06tRSyLpJM

In a thread about The Embrace you link to a performance dance
in varying holds as an example of embrace! I think not.
The best advice I can offer is to ignore everything about it.

 

[bordertangoman]

In a thread about The Embrace you link to a performance dance
in varying holds as an example of embrace! I think not.
The best advice I can offer is to ignore everything about it.

On this we disagree; an Argentine teacher said to put more presence in my embrace, in order to do this he suggested at pauses to lift my arm and reconnect. its not compulsory, but it can be helpful.for leaders and followers.

 

[sixela]

Lots of things are possible, but you need pretty good reasons to consistently lock the follower at her back with a firm low hand (if you apply no pressure then where the hand ends up is irrelevant, and <name of porteño withheld> often maintains good contact at the upper arm and places the hand a lot lower than most would dare°), or to avoid presenting the follower something to rest her arm on to connect.

Doesn't mean you can't sometimes loosen the embrace and then reconnect (especially when pausing at the end of a musical phrase).

--
°especially with Pretty Young Things sporting dresses like Mireille Darc's in "the Tall Blond Man with One Black Shoe."

 

[dchester]

Also at practicas, I am very open to suggestions, and I often get contrary advices. Now I think, style does matters here. We need to first understand what style we are trying to follow, which usually defines the type of connection and then....

This is because difference people have different preferences. Some people want some weight sharing (and the amount varies from person to person), while some want no weight sharing. Some want a lot of resistance / pressure from the follower's right arm, while others want very little.

There's no single way that will work best for everyone, thus people tend to fall into two camps, those that try to adapt to whoever they are dancing with, and those who won't (and they only dance with selected people).

Neither strategy is wrong, BTW. It simply comes down to whether you want to dance most of the tandas, or only a few (and some people are quite happy to only dance a few tandas with their favorite partners). Maybe in the beginning, I think it's best try to try to be sensitive and adapt to different styles, but typically, people develop preferences for certain things / styles, and obviously will try to focus on those things.

 

[larrynla]

Lots of interesting advice. I especially liked that many posts made clear that techniques have to be adapted to the individuals. Few techniques work exactly the same for everyone.

Perhaps unnecessary to say, but I'd suggest that most work on these techniques should be done in classes or practicas. If at milongas you think a lot about what you're doing you may end up like the caterpillar who tried to consciously make her legs move and work together - unable to move at all.

Instead milongas are where hopefully you reap the benefits of all the classes, practice, and individual technique work - you can quit thinking analytically and let your body take over. You can focus on your partners and the music and enjoy how your body feels.

I'd also add that connection is not only physical but psychological. You can get all the physiological details right and still be dancing all alone in every other way, insulated from human contact in a little psychic vacuum-bottle.