What does that have to do we man not using condoms with 5 women and women suing the club?
Your tangents are very hard to figure out
Emotional maturity or what is that we are looking at - Gavito Festival 2024/Gustavo Naveira - Giselle Anne ?
- Thread starter ardix
- Start date
Your tangents are very hard to figure out
opendoor
Forum Master
In my part of the world, something like that would be very bad for business!
I agree with @Paja.
For those who care about their reputation and are upright in their conduct because they want to, a wrong allegation can destroy their reputation. At least in their mind, irrespective of the reality. That can be traumatic. It doesn’t matter whether you are a traveling instructor or not. A beginner or inexperience woman can read all the posts about misbehavior and then construe something as inappropriate. That risk is high.
The people or men who don’t care about their reputation are in a different boat. They will keep trying. That someone would speak against it once in a while doesn’t make difference to them. What they are looking at is 80% to 90% success rate in getting away with it or women keeping quiet.
The frame of reference for both types is very different.
An analogy I can think of is a leader at milonga who is polite and thoughtful about asking a lady. And there are men who will interrupt, ask rudely, acost a woman, and woman will agree even though they may be annoyed by being trapped. Women write and say about such men all the time. But these men still get dances despite causing annoyance. So they continue. One or two women saying no to them doesn’t change their behavior.
Over all I think both men and women are not thoughtful enough. They don’t observe what’s going on around. Their heads are buried in the phone or busy yapping with others. Therefore not paying attention to Ronda nor socially aware of who is acting how. Or may be I am weird who quickly takes it how most people are behaving.
You mean giving privates at home or wife not being present ?
Very few instructors give privates at home. Some might have built a studio at home in garage.
A person misbehaving would do so no matter what is the venue. They can behave the same giving a private at studio as they would at home.
itwillhappen
Forum Master
There are laws in place to protect privacy and data. First and foremost, I would doubt that the organizer of a dance event is allowed to collect, store, process or pass on information about vaccination status or sexual practices and sexual partners. Those affected by a so perceived abuse may tend not to give this aspect excessive importance. Cameras are also a difficult issue, of course.What does that have to do we man not using condoms with 5 women and women suing the club?
Your tangents are very hard to figure out
itwillhappen
Forum Master
There is a fifth category: beginners. And I've heard that male leaders are beginners for about their first ten years. You definitely can't expect a beginner to correctly interpret subtle signals under the stress of body to body fighting. So my deadline is in a year...
itwillhappen
Forum Master
When it comes to the topic of abuse, the idea quickly arises that it should take absolute priority over other things, at least for women. But that's not the case, risk assessments will be carried out in which opportunity and convenience quickly take priority. So most who want a better world are far from being prepared to pay the price for it.
Whatever precautions are taken, there's a risk. I'm still slightly amazed at the TAZ article. Accepting that some form of abuse can happen anywhere, there's a risk assessment. The feeling seems to be that Someone should do something. But nobody seems to be that 'someone'. It's not notified immediately, or it's some hearsay. But someone should take some action. And then it's repeated, and apparently 'known', but they keep going back. The venue doesn't get boycotted by the group until something is done. The abuser isn't 'shamed'. Others from the sisterhood still go and participate.
I accept that there's some personal shame and embarrassment about this. Even self-blame. And, as a male, whilst I might sympathise, I can't fully understand. I can't see what gain there is, beyond something financial, in raising this abuse even years later - or when the perpetrator is dead.
Nevertheless, Nobody seems to want to be the Somebody to do something at the time.
Sufficient mansplaining. Any female input based on experiences?
I accept that there's some personal shame and embarrassment about this. Even self-blame. And, as a male, whilst I might sympathise, I can't fully understand. I can't see what gain there is, beyond something financial, in raising this abuse even years later - or when the perpetrator is dead.
Nevertheless, Nobody seems to want to be the Somebody to do something at the time.
Sufficient mansplaining. Any female input based on experiences?
opendoor
Forum Master
All female tango beginners dream of getting a tango teacher. At least, everyone in my cohort did. Many of them managed to do this. My own ego had to get used to it at first. But since many had really bad experiences, the price of my shares rose slowly but steadily!
The treshold of what we are expected to put up with, as defined by general concensus in society, is changing over time. After that incident during performance, and the support the lady got from the audience and organizers, others also feel that maybe their experiences wont be outright dismissed. People speak up when they feel safe(r), regardless of when it happened.
itwillhappen
Forum Master
You also have to imagine the situation when cases of sexual harassment are heard in court.
Let's assume that a female employee complains that her boss - ostensibly for safety reasons - put his hand on her bottom when she was standing on a ladder at work. The judge has no idea about it and calls an expert with a ladder to demonstrate the matter. The woman has to do this job, otherwise the children will have nothing to eat. The judge can form his own opinion and make his judgment.
And now the same thing with tango, she felt his hand on her bottom. The experts are finalists in the Mundial de Pista (it's not about stage tango, as far as the judge understood). And then at the demonstration, first of all, normal dancing including: outside ganchos, inside ganchos, leg wraps, inside sacadas on the left, inside sacadas on the right, all with intensive breast contact. And then they demonstrates what it looks like when his hand "accidentally" slips onto her bottom. The woman put herself in this situation voluntarily, as a way to pass the time. What is the judge supposed to say about that?
Let's assume that a female employee complains that her boss - ostensibly for safety reasons - put his hand on her bottom when she was standing on a ladder at work. The judge has no idea about it and calls an expert with a ladder to demonstrate the matter. The woman has to do this job, otherwise the children will have nothing to eat. The judge can form his own opinion and make his judgment.
And now the same thing with tango, she felt his hand on her bottom. The experts are finalists in the Mundial de Pista (it's not about stage tango, as far as the judge understood). And then at the demonstration, first of all, normal dancing including: outside ganchos, inside ganchos, leg wraps, inside sacadas on the left, inside sacadas on the right, all with intensive breast contact. And then they demonstrates what it looks like when his hand "accidentally" slips onto her bottom. The woman put herself in this situation voluntarily, as a way to pass the time. What is the judge supposed to say about that?
That’s strange. By now I knew several cohorts. Five years apart. None got involved with a teacher or instructor that I can know of.
An incident like that would have caused a furor 40 or 50 years back too.
itwillhappen
Forum Master
Maybe tango is so popular with women because they feel relatively safe there - considering the level of intimacy that is possible?
They may clutch the pepper spray on the way to the car, and an accelerated pulse and breathing can also indicate asthma, but I would guess that in about every 20th tanda the ladies don't want to open embrace nor eyes between the songs.
I don't consider that "harassment" or "abuse" either, more like "use", just "taking advantage" of that they as followers can dream and I, as the leader, am busy with more cognitive tasks.
But you have to feel relatively safe for something like that, don't you?
I avoid women who dance with shoulder bags, maybe because they could carry pepper spray...