Englighten me, Please...

[Peaches]

Of course, to the beat, to the melody, to anything you want.. but it must be somewhere in the music, not just in your imagination!

Funny, I saw nothing in that video that would suggest that they weren't dancing to the music. Maybe not with the beat at all tmes, but thank god for that. I wish more men would dance to something other than the beat in the music.

Would you care to point out examples of where you felt they were dancing without the music?

 

[bordertangoman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9fpCj5hY_U
Of course, to the beat, to the melody, to anything you want.. but it must be somewhere in the music, not just in your imagination!

well I agree with Peaches; their dancing for the most part is with the music

which just makes me wonder what you are hearing..

they have chosen a slow melodic piece to dance to; a stronger or faster rhythm wouldnt work for the flowing movements.

 

[chanchan]

Funny, I saw nothing in that video that would suggest that they weren't dancing to the music. Maybe not with the beat at all tmes, but thank god for that. I wish more men would dance to something other than the beat in the music.

Would you care to point out examples of where you felt they were dancing without the music?

When there is just one instrument that is playing (for example the voice, like in 2:30-2:45) you have not so many choices: either you follow it, or you are out of music: if the voice makes a pause or a sustained note, you can't keep on doing your steps. If your step is before or after the note attack, you are out of the music IMHO.
If you don't like to be so constrained with the pauses, you must choice a different kind of music.

 

[bordertangoman]

When there is just one instrument that is playing (for example the voice, like in 2:30-2:45) you have not so many choices: either you follow it, or you are out of music: if the voice makes a pause or a sustained note, you can't keep on doing your steps. If your step is before or after the note attack, you are out of the music IMHO.
If you don't like to be so constrained with the pauses, you must choice a different kind of music.

Your "cant" is just one interpretation: why not continue to move with a sustained note and the singer is answered immediately by an instrument with a similar sustained note;
Too many tango dancers mark the rhythm with their feet and think therefore they have to move melodically with the feet but slow/melodic/flowing movement can come from the torso and the feet merely sustain the movement.
Or the leader can move slowly or stay in oone spot and lead the follower to a quicker pace; there are so many possibilities....

for dancing in a more complex way good dancers can move across slowly fast staccato rhythms; or as many professionals do they have to be another instrument with its own notes amongst the music. Any musician must hear what others around him are playing AND be able to follow his own score..
Musicality is interpretation first and foremost; there is nothing wrong with theirs, nor your; only different interpretations

 

[Peaches]

When there is just one instrument that is playing (for example the voice, like in 2:30-2:45) you have not so many choices: either you follow it, or you are out of music: if the voice makes a pause or a sustained note, you can't keep on doing your steps. If your step is before or after the note attack, you are out of the music IMHO.
If you don't like to be so constrained with the pauses, you must choice a different kind of music.

I must do nothing.

There are things to dance to besides the rhythm. There are things to be heard in silences, and things which could be danced. Have seen it, have heard it. (A good example of hearing things in pauses is Led Zeppelin's "Fool in the Rain." Listen to the repeated ascending notes that are the backbone of the instrumentation. I almost guarantee you'll hear "notes" where there are none.) If the vocals pause of have a sustained note, there's nothing wrong with dancing to another instrument if available.

I can't watch videos here at work, so I can't comment on the time frame you mentioned, but a 15-second sustained note? I'm skeptical. I wonder what else the found to dance. Perhaps, different pitches? Perhaps one partner is marking the long note/pause/whatever it is, while the other does something different. All good.

 

[chanchan]

Your "cant" is just one interpretation: why not continue to move with a sustained note and the singer is answered immediately by an instrument with a similar sustained note;

Sure, but in this case you must do the step with that instrument not at a random time.
When you have an orchestra that is playing more than one voice, you can mark different instruments, melodies, rhytms at the same time. If all of them are present in the music.
You can also "play your own notes" but they must be in harmony with the music no musican can play random notes and calling them "interpretation".

Look at any video of frumboli and tell me if you find just a single step or movement that isn't marked by any instrument.

 

[dchester]

Sure, but in this case you must do the step with that instrument not at a random time.
When you have an orchestra that is playing more than one voice, you can mark different instruments, melodies, rhytms at the same time. If all of them are present in the music.
You can also "play your own notes" but they must be in harmony with the music no musican can play random notes and calling them "interpretation".

Look at any video of frumboli and tell me if you find just a single step or movement that isn't marked by any instrument.

Who (other than you) is saying it is random? Just because a step is taken when no note is played, does not mean it is random.

 

[chanchan]

If the vocals pause of have a sustained note, there's nothing wrong with dancing to another instrument if available.

I told you to look at 2:30-2:45 just because in this interval you have only the voice, or only one melodic line of the instruments, there is nothing else available, so noticing if they are following it or not is very easy.

 

[bordertangoman]

Sure, but in this case you must do the step with that instrument not at a random time.
.

I will re-iterate my point; if there is no rhythm or accent in the music you do NOT need to step with the instrument;
one is choosing to flow; to create a body movement that is continuous;
the movement of the feet is not random but its about creating a flowing not a rhymicaly or phrased movement.

I dont think I can make it any clearer. flow is flow.

 

[chanchan]

Who (other than you) is saying it is random? Just because a step is taken when no note is played, does not mean it is random.

IMHO if something has no apparent meaning it can be considered to be "random" until someone can give it a sense.

"Creating a flow" is a little bit vague to be an explanation: a movement can be continuous but it still having accents, their movements have accents also if they are flowing, and the music has accents also if it is legato.
The problems is that movements and music accents are totally unrelated.

 

[Captain Jep]

Damn. That's harsh and out of line. Care to offer comments about what, specifically, you found lacking in their dancing?

To be honest Im probably in agreement with ChanChan and chrisjj on this one. It's just not very good dancing.

Yes, musicality doesnt mean you have to step on every beat. But IMO you do have to respect the phrasing of the tune. I dont see that in their dancing.

Dont worry though I wont take it as "representative" of US tango dancing in general lol ..

 

[bordertangoman]

IMHO if something has no apparent meaning it can be considered to be "random" until someone can give it a sense.

I cant see anything random in their movement;I have therefore given it sense; I looked at the time in the clip you suggested and I disagree with your analysis; so I conclude its your Johari window, Capn Jep is right; their dancing isnt brilliant but their musicality is not the problem

 

[dchester]

IMHO if something has no apparent meaning it can be considered to be "random" until someone can give it a sense.

"Creating a flow" is a little bit vague to be an explanation: a movement can be continuous but it still having accents, their movements have accents also if they are flowing, and the music has accents also if it is legato.
The problems is that movements and music accents are totally unrelated.

OK, so the passage from 2:30-2:45 was random to you. I accept that. However, it was not random to me. Was it the best demo I ever saw, no. But the bottom line is, it was just a demo of a move at the end of a class.

 

[Peaches]

To be honest Im probably in agreement with ChanChan and chrisjj on this one. It's just not very good dancing.

Yes, musicality doesnt mean you have to step on every beat. But IMO you do have to respect the phrasing of the tune. I dont see that in their dancing.

Dont worry though I wont take it as "representative" of US tango dancing in general lol ..

And that's fine. I take issue with dismissing the dancing/dancers as bad, without citing any specific reason (whereas you cited the fact that, to you, the dancing doesn't fit the musical phrasing). And, furthermore, a broad inflammatory statement to the effect that all dancers in the US are "that bad" is out of line IMO.

 

[Peaches]

I gotta watch this passage that's being discussed...