Enough Classes

[bordertangoman]

Could you define that?

"early intermediate move-monster"

they typically want to a parada - double hooked gancho followed by some swizzly things that they think are ochos that they saw on Strychnine Come Dancing and know absolutely b*****-all about leading or following or doing anything that is remotely connected to the music.

 

[UKDancer]

Oh yes, I know some of those....

 

[AndaBien]

"early intermediate move-monster"

they typically want to a parada - double hooked gancho followed by some swizzly things that they think are ochos that they saw on Strychnine Come Dancing and know absolutely b*****-all about leading or following or doing anything that is remotely connected to the music.

Beginners often become seduced by fanciness. It may take them years before they figure out that there might be greater pleasure in doing simple movements, if they ever figure it out.

 

[ant]

So I think to continue with the learning process, people need to move away from that model exclusively, and re-focus on a mixture of:
- Practicing solo
- Practicing with a partner
- Group practicas
- Private classes
- Specialist workshops
- Group classes

One thing I have noticed a number of teachers I still take classes with do is to learn to play an instrument associated with AT music, usually violin or bandoneon.

 

[nucat78]

Beginners often become seduced by fanciness. It may take them years before they figure out that there might be greater pleasure in doing simple movements, if they ever figure it out.

Or worse yet - my initial AT instructor is really a ballroom and Latin person. Nothing wrong with that in theory, but he insists on trying to teach complex AT "patterns" in group classes and very few people can remember the patterns from one class to the next.

My eyes were opened when I attended a group class in Tampa, of all places, and we spent an hour walking. I never went back to an AT class at my (now) social studio again.

 

[caminito]

Hi Nucat78.
I went to a good club in Tampa about eight years ago while on holiday in Florida.
The lessons were good walking and musicality.
Also the standard of dancing at the milonga was a high standard. My Argentinian friend who was with me agreed !

 

[opendoor]

.. does a time ever come when tango dancers should quit taking classes?

Don´t know if you came across my first posts. But after several years without any class, and since I start regarding myself as a fairly good dancer... slowly, I mean, I should begin with taking classes, finally.

 

[Lilly_of_the_valley]

One thing I have noticed a number of teachers I still take classes with do is to learn to play an instrument associated with AT music, usually violin or bandoneon.

Absolutely. Playing music and/or singing is a great way of practicing for a dancer. Even better if you have a chance to play with someone or with a group.

 

[Dave Bailey]

Could you define that?

"Move-monster", or "pokemon collector", is a term I use for someone who dances nothing but sequences - basically, thinking of tango as a set of patterns, one after the other.

To be honest, I think it's a very common approach to learning tango, in the UK at least - most people start learning from group classes, which are often heavily-focussed on learning a particular sequence.

So people tend to collect 200 volcada variations, or whatever.

 

[Dave Bailey]

To clarify, I'm not trying to get into some extremist anti-group-class rant here, unlike, ahem, some people historically have done.

There's absolutely a good place for group classes, especially when you're starting out, and with a good teacher (and a relatively small group), I think you can go a long way with them.

I just think that, to continue with the learning process, you probably need to evolve your own methods of learning, and that typically this will involve more of other elements than just group classes alone.

 

[JohnEm]

To clarify, I'm not trying to get into some extremist anti-group-class rant here, unlike, ahem, some people historically have done.

He who should not be named ..............

There's absolutely a good place for group classes, especially when you're starting out, and with a good teacher (and a relatively small group), I think you can go a long way with them.

Yes you can progress this way but the caveat is as you state.
Just how does a beginner find a good teacher? Usually it's pot luck.
Previous dance experience helps because you have some sort of basis
to decide but that presupposes you have a choice of teachers.

And if you do accidentally find good teachers, and I did eventually, the weekly
(or more) deconstruction is not always helpful. More and more I lean to private,
or at least personal, lessons being best. Most people starting out in tango
aren't convinced enough to commit to that expense so perhaps it's an idea
to treat group classes as an introduction and progress sooner rather than later
to more personal tuition.

I just think that, to continue with the learning process, you probably need to evolve your own methods of learning, and that typically this will involve more of other elements than just group classes alone.

In my experience it was more or less no group classes at all.
At some stage you have to break away and decide for yourself.
And when you have that confidence then decisions about future
learning experiences are much easier.

Then as I regard Tango as the ultimate self-improvement dance,
maybe that's the way to go. Certainly much more practise and
actual dancing than formal teaching. The learning doesn't stop though.
It's your dance, it is you who has to self-develop it.

 

[jfm]

it's a hard one to call for followers. Maybe we should have separate classes? Followers do technique (how to step, posture, how to dissociate, groundedness), leaders do technique and ideas for how to put combinations of elements together (leaders dance with each other so they feel how it is to be led-i..e. what feels nice and what doesn't). If I had good technique classes available I would go every week but going to group lessons on a new "move" for leaders to practice on? not sure how much this has ever helped.

 

[Captain Jep]

I dont really take group classes anymore. Just a few workshops at weekenders or when a particularly good teacher comes to visit.

I think the main limitation has been the lack of high level dancers in the local scene. In the UK you have to live in very specific locations to get enough high level dancers for a group class. Not that it would probably work anyway. Even where you do get it the classes tend to be men-heavy rather than even numbers. Most followers IME get to a point where they only do privates - rather than group lessons.

Unfortunately men are rarely good followers. They just dont get the miles on the dance floor. So expecting men to dance with each other in a high level class just aint gonna happen.

The best solution is to get creative - as DB suggests. Do privates. Or have small high level practica sessions. Or move to BA .... lol

 

[Captain Jep]

Oh and ps .. I personally wish there were a few move-monster classes. It seems we've gone completely the other way. Yes, I appreciate technique classes. But I would also like to be able to dance like El Pulpo. Just to experience it. Or do a few lifts.

Now if only I could find a dance partner to do it with... hehe ....

 

[Madahlia]

it's a hard one to call for followers. Maybe we should have separate classes? Followers do technique (how to step, posture, how to dissociate, groundedness), leaders do technique and ideas for how to put combinations of elements together (leaders dance with each other so they feel how it is to be led-i..e. what feels nice and what doesn't). If I had good technique classes available I would go every week but going to group lessons on a new "move" for leaders to practice on? not sure how much this has ever helped.

I agree. I feel completely bored with classes because they very rarely seem to address my needs and I resent paying hard-earned money to be a dummy for the guys to practise on. (As I may have mentioned once or twice before. ) I have occasionally attended classes where time was devoted to followers' technique of the kind you mention. I don't see why classes can't be structured 50:50 to benefit both parties.

It's very frustrating because I need to move on but I am finding it hard to get opportunities to develop.