Equality in everyday situations

[Pacion]

This is a sister thread to Equality on the dance floor, about domineering handholds and "equality" on the dancefloor - what about in everyday situations? This thread is not about equal pay for equal work or whether a man can work on the shop floor in ladies lingerie (and work on the changingrooms) which are thorny issues.

My question is about "gallantry". Two meanings - courtesy towards women [syn: chivalry, politesse] or polite attentiveness to women.

I love it when a guy allows me to go ahead of him when coming out of the lift, when he holds a door open for me, holds my chair, opens the car door, helps me with my coat or if we are out, stands up when I leave or approach the table, holds my elbow as we cross the street etc. (If I know him well, I will be mischievous and do the same thing for him on occassion :lol: and he knows that I am being mischievous, especially when I hold his coat with the outside to him rather than than inside :twisted: ). The degree to which I love the above (or think it appropriate) varies depending on whether he is a male relative, friend or SO or stranger. A stranger/male colleague grabbing my elbow as we cross the street will probably get a handbag whacked across their head :lol: whereas my reaction to a male relative, friend or SO would be different.

I have heard some guys say - women want equality, that is what they get. They can get their own chairs, doors, carry their own shopping etc.

I have some women say - if a guy does any of the above for me, I will lynch him. :roll:

Some guys have said that with certain women, they get killer looks if they show any attentiveness because the women think the men wouldn't do it for another male therefore why do it for them because they are women, and therefore making them (the woman) inequal. :roll:

Enquiring minds would like to know, what is your view.

 

[Bob]

I think this is a small piece of a larger issue. Rather than equality, we should talk in terms of respect.

I enjoy being the person who WILL pull out a chair, or carry her to bed when she falls asleep on the couch, or run to the car for the 100th time to get the water bottle she deliberately left there to see if I would complain this time (I don't). Chivalry is not dead in my house.

But I will not be any more polite when arguing politics with a woman than with a man, I will not let a woman score a goal on me because she is a woman, I will not slow down on the bike any more for a slower woman than I would a slower man... because all of these things are showing a lack of respect.

I would not give a woman a job because she is a woman. That is certanly the wrong reason to hire someont. But if I gave her a job because she could get the job done, I would respect her with the same amount of pay that the man (who didn't get hired) would have gotten.

I think that it is not right to be color blind, gender blind, handicap blind or blind to religious differences. But with a healthy measure of respect, these differences become positive things to build upon and share, rather than barriers between people.

I respect everyone I meet, and assume that they have something positive that they can teach me.

I am not the kind of person to say "people are SO stupid!". This statement is a huge lack of respect to the entire world. It is close minded and arrogant to think that there is nothing that someone you consider "stupid" can teach you, if only in negative (They could have handled that better by...).

This is not to say that a person can not lose my respect, they can. But not without comitting some intentional offense.

(note: If a woman doesn't want to be doted upon, then she can get her own damned water, thats fine too. But don't imply that any act of kindness is a lack of respect )

 

[clave]

Pacion wrote:
> Some guys have said that with certain women, they get killer looks if they show any attentiveness because the women think the men wouldn't do it for another male therefore why do it for them because they are women, and therefore making them (the woman) inequal.

I'll venture a guess here that these women are typically single, yes? :twisted: Being a jerk when someone is genuinely nice to you is likely to keep your genes from propagating, and I suspect this quality in humans is gender-neutral despite the fact that we use different words for such behavior in men and women.

 

[MacMoto]

I love it when a guy allows me to go ahead of him when coming out of the lift, when he holds a door open for me, holds my chair, opens the car door, helps me with my coat or if we are out, stands up when I leave or approach the table, holds my elbow as we cross the street etc.

I also love it when guys do these things. I also love being a follower, so I suppose I'm just that sort of girl. Bob's spot on about respect, and snapping at someone who is being nice and courteous towards you is certainly not very respectful.

 

[Sabor]

I love it when a guy allows me to go ahead of him when coming out of the lift, when he holds a door open for me, holds my chair, opens the car door, helps me with my coat or if we are out, stands up when I leave or approach the table, holds my elbow as we cross the street etc

yeah.. i like it when women do these niceys for me too.. ahh true ladies!

 

[ShyDancer]

Hmmm ... dont know wether I should answer this :lol:

Im all for gender equality, I personally dont like having doors opened, or chairs pullled out for me, Ok its a sweet gesture but Im perfectly capable of doing it myself. I dont like flowers or cutesy cards...
Sadly I was born without a romantic bone in my body.

Although I do occasionally like to pull out the "but Im a girl" card...eg, when its time to take out trash or mow the lawn or wash the car :lol:

 

[Sagitta]

Right shydancer!! Different people might have different standards. In this confused world all that we can ask if that people make allowances for differences, right?

 

[MacMoto]

Im all for gender equality, I personally dont like having doors opened, or chairs pullled out for me, Ok its a sweet gesture but Im perfectly capable of doing it myself. I dont like flowers or cutesy cards...
Sadly I was born without a romantic bone in my body.

Although I do occasionally like to pull out the "but Im a girl" card...eg, when its time to take out trash or mow the lawn or wash the car :lol:

Interesting -- because I don't mind taking out trash, mowing the lawn or washing the car myself -- I used to do these things when I was married (I'm also all for gender equality you see :wink. I do like flowers and occasionally I buy them myself as a treat, but someone giving me flowers is much nicer .

No wonder guys are confused :lol:

 

[Bob]

Im all for gender equality, I personally dont like having doors opened, or chairs pullled out for me, Ok its a sweet gesture but Im perfectly capable of doing it myself. I dont like flowers or cutesy cards...

Sure, but it isn't all about flowers, chairs, or cards. For example:

If you were walking with a heavy load, and I took the lion's share and carried it, would you consider than an insult to your gender? I doubt that you would. If you did protest though, I would tell you "I know that you CAN carry this, but you don't HAVE to carry it. Now hand over the goods, sister! "

This can be seen as a sexist remark, but I dont' see it that way. It is just a statement of fact, and a logical dividison of labor.

Don't turn it into a lack of respect, just say "Thanks" and enjoy the help.

 

[pygmalion]

Bob. You sound to me like a very wise man. 8) And a courteous one.

 

[Pacion]

Yes, like Pygmalion said! Are there any more like you Bob? :wink:

Sabor, would it look a bit strange if a lady (who is bound to be shorter than you!) were to take your elbow (and I don't mean as in linking arms!) as you are about to walk across the street :roll: :twisted: :lol:

As Bob says, "Just say Thanks"

 

[Bob]

Are there any more like you Bob?

Probably, but I am sure they have all been branded "liberal" and tossed into padded cells...


:shock:

 

[Pacion]

rotfl. So how did you escape :wink: :lol:

 

[Bob]

I just blame everything on France. By the time the right-wing nut jobs remember that they were going to lynch me, I am long gone. :roll:

 

[Pacion]

:lol: Yes, by all means, blame everything on France. After all, it was France that gave us gassy wine (champagne), fake jewellry to be worn with pride (Chanel), the little black dress (Chanel again) and Yves Montand :wink: