Finding beat in music problems: 1) noisy environment and 2) distracting partner

[ticolora]

This is a well-discussed subject, however, I am looking for ideas for two specific issues I am struggling with when it comes to finding "one".

I believe that I have a pretty good hang on finding 1 in music when I do it on my own. But I found that I have a hard time when I am on a dance floor. I suspect that it has to do with the two following conditions:

1. Last night I was at a small social dance. Room is small and echo-y, the sound system was not great, and people were talking louder than the music. I think because of that I had a hard time finding the beat. What excercises (other than one below) can I do to handle this particular situation better?

Here is how I'm practicing now:
- open spotify and play my list on 10-second random skip (automatically jumping to a random position in a random song every 10 seconds), while
- playing a "restaurant ambiance" track on youtube while trying to find a beat in each song that comes up.

2. If my partner is off-beat (let's say because *I* put her on that wrong beat), once she is on that wrong beat, I can't seem to find "one" in the song. I suspect that panicking is part of the problem because this problem is exaggerated when I'm leading a Rueda circle. I haven't tried anything to drill this skill. I am looking for suggestions as to how to practice effectively to improve this shortcoming of mine. Here is my idea I am yet to try (I'm looking for feedback on this idea): bring headphones and find beat (randomly skipping songs) in music during the social. If I pretend that everybody is looking at me, I hope I can induce the same panicky feeling thus getting used to it. Closing my eyes and stopping helps but doesn't seem to be too graceful.

As a workaround, for now, I try to find the beat before I invite a partner to dance, this is not ideal, obviously.

I understand that "dancing more" will make me better at this, but let me reiterate, I'm looking for specific drills I can practice.

 

[Wannabe Triple Threat]

Find a metronome app, preferrably one that lets you change the meter (puts the 'strong' on 1 and 3, or 1, or on nothing at all).

Set a moderate tempo. Move to every single beat for a bit. Then, only move on the 1 (set it to be 'strong' on 1) and hold the rest. Then, repeat with moving only on 2, then 3, then 4, then 1 and 3, then 2 and 4.

Each of these will give you a different feeling. Then try the same exercise with a simple song -- something that doesn't have a lot going on with the accompaniment or polyrhythms. Eventually, you'll be able to feel the strong vs weak beats. Even if you get off, you'll be able to recover and "hear" the strong 1 again.

 

[opendoor]

..I try to find the beat before I invite a partner to dance, this is not ideal, obviously..

The good thing about cuban music is that you must not dance on1. Many dance on3, or on2. When trying to find the 1 beforehand, some girls will be taken. So if you are unsure about the 1, simply lift your left arm, get the girl tight, step, turn and sway on the spot. The onst of a riffs, solo, or singing will mark the next 1. That would be the moment to open the hold and to crank up.

 

[opendoor]

Get the app Salsa Rhythm (by District) for your phone, turn off the counting voice, find the beat and compare with the voice. Repeat with several instruments turned off.

 

[latinjazz]

The good thing about cuban music is that you must not dance on1. Many dance on3, or on2. When trying to find the 1 beforehand, some girls will be taken. So if you are unsure about the 1, simply lift your left arm, get the girl tight, step, turn and sway on the spot. The onst of a riffs, solo, or singing will mark the next 1. That would be the moment to open the hold and to crank up.

It is true what you say, but that is different styles with different basic steps, and not all of them work when you change the beat you're dancing on.
Besides, dancing on the "3" is rather Cumbia style, in most of the Salsa music styles this just feels odd.

The main problem with Salsa is that the "correct" one only comes every 2 measures, so you can be on the one of the measure but still wrong - because it's the 5.
Many Cuban groups, like for example "los Van Van", switch a lot with these things creating a wrong one in the middle of the song.

To the OP; Sometimes it's just about knowing the tunes.
From other posts I would assume you're a progressed dancer, so probably you don't really need an app like this. If I got you right, you dance mostly Cuban style, so you're dealing with Timba grooves - meaning a Salsa app would help nothing anyway.
So in a place with bad accoustics it's hard to help...
All I can say is that we hear better when music is not too loud, so perhaps even earplugs could help? It's a strange feeling, of course... but perhaps one?
The alternative would be to get used to the accoustics of the place, exploring the dance floor - you might find a corner where it's easier to dance..

 

[opendoor]

..The main problem with Salsa is that the "correct" 1 only comes every 2 measures, so you can be on the 1 of the measure but still wrong - because it's the 5..

I know the difference between bar and phrase, but I doubt that salsa musicians do? Those I got to know (latinos in most cases) live in a 4/4 world, rather than in 8/4. The cuban basic also is in 4/4, so I will (carefully) argue that it is better to dance out of phrase than out of time. The girl the opener told of, does not care of on1, on2, or on5, as long as the leader strictly is in 2/4 ! It was only meant as a means to bridge the time and to find into the phrase on the floor (instead of hanging alone at the bar).

 

[opendoor]

..Many Cuban groups, like for example "los Van Van", switch a lot with these things creating a wrong one in the middle of the song..

That is a good advice, too. I find these undefined moments have their own attraction, also the shift from 3-2 to 2-3 clave.
To cope with these moments the dancer needs some “emergency steps“ for instance that stepping in close hold on the spot.

 

[latinjazz]

I know the difference between bar and phrase, but I doubt that salsa musicians do? Those I got to know (latinos in most cases) live in a 4/4 world, rather than in 8/4.

Oh, misunderstanding here! I was talking about a Clave pattern, meaning 2 bars.
Cubans count alla breve, which makes 2 measures one measure - but only musicians. Cuban dance instructors count 1-2-3, 5-6-7 or 2-3-4, 6-7-8 - so 2 bars.

The cuban basic also is in 4/4, so I will (carefully) argue that it is better to dance out of phrase than out of time.

That is a Tabu in Cuban music and dance. If you start on the "5" you dance "cruzado" (On the other hand many good Cuban dancers don't care about it when they do it - only when YOU do it it's a problem...


Rereading this "phrase" sentence, I don't really get where you are coming from - am I still not understanding what you meant?

 

[latinjazz]

(instead of hanging alone at the bar

Can be loads of fun, too. I have experience with it.

 

[opendoor]

..Rereading this "phrase" sentence, I don't really get where you are coming from

I do not come where you come from, so please excuse my smart appearence. My idea was to question that two-bar phrase (123,567 or 234,678) as in my experience only dancers use it, but salsa musicians do not.

 

[latinjazz]

I do not come where you come from, so please excuse my smart appearence. My idea was to question that two-bar phrase (123,567 or 234,678) as in my experience only dancers use it, but salsa musicians do not.

There is nothing to excuse, I just didn’t understand!
So musicians in your experience may dance on the 1 or 5 without caring, is it this what you mean?
It is not my experience, I rather lived that either they don’t dance at all or they do it correctly. But that is only what I lived, I’m not at all discussing there will be other ones!

 

[opendoor]

..So musicians in your experience may dance on the 1 or 5 without caring, is it this what you mean?

No, I meant playing their instruments. When it comes to dancing these guys rather dance intuitively, not analytically.

 

[latinjazz]

No, I meant playing their instruments. When it comes to dancing these guys rather dance intuitively, not analytically.
View attachment 3860

Oops - they would get in trouble in Cuba. Playing cruzado is even worse than dancing cruzado!

You probably mean that they count differently or rather think in clave?
If a percussion, piano or bassplayer doesn’t know the Clave he’s in trouble!

 

[opendoor]

Playing cruzado is even worse than dancing cruzado!

I‘m not familiar with cruzado in terms of playing. Dancing cruzado in Cuba means breaking with the right foot forward. What I was referring to was that 8/4 phrase. Musicians think in 4/4 or even in 2/4, but not in 8/4 as dancers do. By the way I found that most Cuban dancers break on3. It is not unusual to change the accent of breaking within a piece, it is only a question of precise leading.

 

[latinjazz]

I‘m not familiar with cruzado in terms of playing. Dancing cruzado in Cuba means breaking with the right foot forward. What I was referring to was that 8/4 phrase. Musicians think in 4/4, dancers in 8/4. By the way I found that most Cuban dancers break on3.

Not the times I was there, I remember seeing that only once in Cuba. But the street dance style in Cuba is such a jungle I believe you instantly when you say this.
"Officially" Casino is on one, or "a contratiempo" when on 2. But of course you will know that.

I would love to explain cruzado in playing but it's a bit complicated and quite offthread now. If it really interests you I can go on by private message.
About musicians thinking in 4/4 or 8/4 it depends: Cuban often write in sixteenth notes, so "alla breve", while in the US (and Salsa didactics in general) usually 2 bars are used for one clave form - so I would rather disagree - except Cuba.