opendoor
Forum Master
All the best, recover soon!
For Leads: Do you watch how a follower dances before inviting her?
- Thread starter WhiskeyPapa
- Start date
Numawan
Well-Known Member
I don't have a very strategic approach of follower selection when I watch other people dance. When I watch others dance, I focus on those couples that seem to dance well. I don't watch them dance to judge them, or rank them, or whatever. I watch them dance to inspire myself, to steal nice moves, to understand why I feel that they are dancing well.
With regard to inviting followers, there are basically two groups: those followers that I am familiar with. They won't always be the best followers around, but I know what to expect, and I know that we should normally have a decent tanda.
With regard to followers that I am not familiar with, my selection is often quite random: the woman who sits beside me when I am putting my shoes on, the woman who crosses my path when I re-enter the dance floor after a break, the sexiest girl around, whatever. Sometimes I will have good surprises, sometimes not.
With regard to inviting followers, there are basically two groups: those followers that I am familiar with. They won't always be the best followers around, but I know what to expect, and I know that we should normally have a decent tanda.
With regard to followers that I am not familiar with, my selection is often quite random: the woman who sits beside me when I am putting my shoes on, the woman who crosses my path when I re-enter the dance floor after a break, the sexiest girl around, whatever. Sometimes I will have good surprises, sometimes not.
tangobro
Active Member
I definitely prefer to watch how she dances before inviting her. If I am at a familiar milonga and she is an unfamiliar face I will want to see her embrace, then - Does she know the basics, does she dance into the cross, can she execute a molinete, does she walk by picking up & putting down her feet (bad), or by moving her legs, does it look like she is falling into steps? I know who most of the bad leaders are, so if she is dancing badly with a bad leader, I ignore that - but these things scream BEGINNER. If I am at an unfamiliar milonga the same applies, but since I don't know who the bad leaders are if she is dancing badly, I look at the lead.
Exception - If I am at a familiar milonga and she is an unfamiliar face I watch for certain cues - while seated does she seem engaged with and enjoying the music & dancing? Do her shoes seem appropriate? Does she seem alert to the potential for cabeceo at specific times? These and a few other cues, taken as a gestalt, will encourage me to invite her via cabeceo. I have had some delightful tandas with visitors from out of town this way, and then after "breaking the ice" with her had an opportunity to watch her dance with others.
Exception - If I am at a familiar milonga and she is an unfamiliar face I watch for certain cues - while seated does she seem engaged with and enjoying the music & dancing? Do her shoes seem appropriate? Does she seem alert to the potential for cabeceo at specific times? These and a few other cues, taken as a gestalt, will encourage me to invite her via cabeceo. I have had some delightful tandas with visitors from out of town this way, and then after "breaking the ice" with her had an opportunity to watch her dance with others.
The follower's perspective on this 'meat market survey' would be interesting. I'm a little reminded of the sheep fair as the judge examines the sheep. Is that a fair comparison? Yes, we all have some criteria for our choices.
Which leaders do followers seek to dance with? Or avoid? And why?
Which leaders do followers seek to dance with? Or avoid? And why?
It may sound as though I’m very fussy but I’m not. I dance with leaders I know and like.
For unknown leaders I usually get the chance to watch them dance first. Poor posture and weird left arm position impact me as a follower so I rule those leaders out. If they look grubby, greasy hair, dirty fingernails (including nicotine stains), paint splattered clothes etc. I won’t be looking their way. I also check their shoes and if they’re wearing something unsuitable I won’t expect much from their dancing.
Generally I choose leaders that seem to be musical (dancing in a way I think suits the music), that look like they know how to dance and that the previous follower seems to have enjoyed dancing with. I don’t respect leaders that ask their last follower to point out their next follower but wouldn’t spite myself by refusing such a dance
For unknown leaders I usually get the chance to watch them dance first. Poor posture and weird left arm position impact me as a follower so I rule those leaders out. If they look grubby, greasy hair, dirty fingernails (including nicotine stains), paint splattered clothes etc. I won’t be looking their way. I also check their shoes and if they’re wearing something unsuitable I won’t expect much from their dancing.
Generally I choose leaders that seem to be musical (dancing in a way I think suits the music), that look like they know how to dance and that the previous follower seems to have enjoyed dancing with. I don’t respect leaders that ask their last follower to point out their next follower but wouldn’t spite myself by refusing such a dance
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
Depends. There are some guys who are so terrible, that you have to wonder why anyone would dance with them. It's not a question of wrong person or right person, but what someone (a follower) will put up with. It's not a hard and fast rule, of course, and I realize that people want to dance and a stranger won't know who's who. But she, too, can evaluate the crowd and make her decision accordingly. There are plenty of women who do just that.
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
Not exactly a fair comparison, no, since dancers *always* watch other dancers to see how they dance. And, yes, women do it too.The follower's perspective on this 'meat market survey' would be interesting. I'm a little reminded of the sheep fair as the judge examines the sheep. Is that a fair comparison? Yes, we all have some criteria for our choices.
Which leaders do followers seek to dance with? Or avoid? And why?
As I said: we all have some criteria for our choices. That may be conscious or unconscious, and not necessarily wiser choices with maturity. Possibly a bit unfair, but it is a 'market' for some. Maybe the leaders don't realise they're in the market as well, and always were.
Is it the guy who's younger, good dresser, well toned, good looking, well groomed, fun, etc., but just passable lead who is trying to cabeceo everyone (There's a comedy interview question in the UK: So, what first attracted you to the millionaire XXX?) Or the older, leisurely dressed, slightly down, elderly, myopic, slightly disheveled and serious, but good lead for all levels?
And does it even matter if it's turned round so followers choose?
Tango Distance
Well-Known Member
I can see the follower might feel more like a fungible commodity rather than the leader's special choice, is that why?
opendoor
Forum Master
..we all have some criteria for our choices..
Watching and analyzing are a different different pair of shoes. As a beginner, you check off a list in your head. Some criteria will be added over time, others will disappear. The longer you dance, the faster and more intuitive the judgment becomes.
I still remember how I misjudged myself as a tango thug (4 years). A sought-after, experienced follower of my community asked me very seriously: why don't you ask me? Because you only dance milonguero style, that looks tiring, I replied. She, I can also dance salón, you just have to say a word.
That’s part of it.
Another part is that in letting others choose their partner they are not demonstrating that they respect dancing skills. When I accept these invitations the leaders themselves do not usually have great dancing skill but are at least enthusiastic and joyful.
sometimes they do it to avoid the back lash from their peers. They didn’t just dance with the prettiest or best they danced with as many partners as they could “at random”. But fail to acknowledge that the followers will form friendships with other followers who are similar to themselves. I know I always point them to my own friends rather than choosing someone from across the room.
Tango Newbie
Well-Known Member
As an 'advanced' beginner (who's past the basics and now taking intermediate classes), I've been to a few practicalongas and milongas, and have only danced with a very select few followers, typically a woman whose dance partner is dancing with my GF (dance partner) since I'm not quite ready to just jump in with both feet.
That said, I'm always watching both leaders and followers, but pay a lot of attention to how well followers dance respective of whoever they're dancing with so I get an idea what they might be looking for so I can (eventually) meet their expectations and acceptable level of a leader (me).
That said, I'm always watching both leaders and followers, but pay a lot of attention to how well followers dance respective of whoever they're dancing with so I get an idea what they might be looking for so I can (eventually) meet their expectations and acceptable level of a leader (me).
tangomaniac
Well-Known Member
Yes, I watch. A woman may look bad because she's a bad dancer. She may look bad if the leader is terrible. I have to figure out which case it is. If she picks up her feet off the floor, I know that's not bad leading. Regardless, it's always a gamble. Sometimes, a woman's bad dancing is a reflection of the leader.
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
They do. Most of them, on some level.
tangobro
Active Member
Happy to hear this perspective. Now I will feel a little less guilty when I try to extricate myself from being introduced to the "good dancers" meaning - her friends.
implied assumption - I will invite them based on her assessment of their dancing ability.