For Leads: Do you watch how a follower dances before inviting her?

[Tango Newbie]

They do. Most of them, on some level.

That's one thing I see all the time, especially as an advanced beginner; followers looking at me when I arrive at a milonga or practica (with my GF), then sizing me up when I'm on the dance floor with my partner. Back when I was a newcomer, it was a little intimidating, with eyes of followers being cast in my direction, then what appeared as comparing notes with each other etc. But now it seems they're taking more interest in dancing with me, with a few telling me so, particularly a couple of experienced followers my GF introduced me to.
So, I know leaders are 'on-the-market' and being scrutinized by followers.

 

[opendoor]

..what are those criteria?

Let me put it this way, it has to do with that "ménage-à-trois", you know, the metaphor I brought near to you last year. Please excuse me if I'm being hypothetical. And what I am formulating now, I really do not wish. But, we're adults and we know we can't force fate. In other words, I hope you'll stay with us even if you don't be with your girlfriend anymore. This is of course a theoretical consideration, but we should look into it. The biggest challenge in tango is staying part of a community that includes the one you left. And if you ask a woman to dance, then in 90% you only have in mind that it just fits technically. But you also invest 10% in the community and into the future, this is the third person in this menage.

 

[Mladenac]

Why that secretive?

It was a "closed" question in the topic.

 

[Tango Newbie]

Let me put it this way, it has to do with that "ménage-à-trois", you know, the metaphor I brought near to you last year. Please excuse me if I'm being hypothetical. And what I am formulating now, I really do not wish. But, we're adults and we know we can't force fate. In other words, I hope you'll stay with us even if you don't be with your girlfriend anymore. This is of course a theoretical consideration, but we should look into it. The biggest challenge in tango is staying part of a community that includes the one you left.

Thanks for your words of wisdom. And yes, I am grasping the concept of the ""ménage-à-trois" you spoke about last year. I will stay with everyone (including the forum), and I'm still with my GF (and will be for the foreseeable future). Plus, I haven't left any community and am still with the one I started with. The only thing that is 'changing' at the moment are the prices for the group classes, which have gone up. So, my GF and I are re-thinking the money we spend, and are going to forego the 'beginner' classes for the 'int/adv' classes for now, with an occasional 'private' lesson with our instructors.

I will say, while we do other activities (golf and cycling), my GF has roped me into the 'orbit of tango', and it's consuming quite a bit of our free time, which I don't mind.

 

[ardix]

Which leaders do followers seek to dance with? Or avoid? And why?

It depends of where I am dancing. If it is one of my local places I make it a point to dance with one or two beginners so that they feel encourage and motivated continue learning and stay in tango. Some of them become reasonably good leaders pretty quick. I also dance with visitors if there are any so that they feel welcomed, then the locals I know I dance well with. When dancing somewhere else (and generally) I avpid leaders that are showing off or seem pretentious and those who are mostly interested in their technique instead of their partners. The way someone is presenting himself is also important - personal hygiene, clothing.

 

[Tango Newbie]

It depends of where I am dancing. If it is one of my local places I make it a point to dance with one or two beginners so that they feel encourage and motivated continue learning and stay in tango. Some of them become reasonably good leaders pretty quick. I also dance with visitors if there are any so that they feel welcomed, then the locals I know I dance well with. When dancing somewhere else (and generally) I avpid leaders that are showing off or seem pretentious and those who are mostly interested in their technique instead of their partners. The way someone is presenting himself is also important - personal hygiene, clothing.

As an 'advanced' beginner with a very experienced GF (dance partner) who has been taking lessons since June 2021, I'm at the point of dancing with other followers who are more experienced than me, yet make it a point to dance with those 'beginners' who aren't dancing as much as the other followers (frequently seen on the dance floor).

Another thing I'm doing is to dance with the 'older' tangueras who are well-known in the local community, which has scored me some 'point' at our home studio. In essence, I'm doing my best to 'fit-in' with the crowd, and pay my respects to those 'older', well-connected followers, which should be beneficial in my journey.

Now that I've learned quite a few more complicated steps that my partner and I continually work on to perfect, I like to try them every once in a while with the other followers I dance with. However, I'm trying to keep things somewhat simple, yet enjoyable so I'm not judged as someone more concerned with 'showing off' or someone who's NOT focusing on the follower I'm dancing with at the moment.

So, my 'dilemma' has been to be more interesting than the typical beginner, yet make my technique match what followers are really interested in. I hope this makes sense.

 

[opendoor]

As an 'advanced' beginner..

You are still too analytical and calculating. Tango is about music, and you're not hooked yet. Only then you will become unpredictable, spontaneous and creative. You are still the distant researcher and observer. As soon you really are hooked, I would call you an "advanced beginner". Not now. And excuse my direct manner. Someday I'll greet you with "welcome to the dark side". Then you know you've finally arrived. Looking forward!

 

[Tango Newbie]

I've found that followers are more motivated than leaders to improve.

I see a select few 'experienced' leaders in my beginner and int-adv classes, and see well-respected leaders in the practalongas and milongas who I've never seen in a class who need to 'clean' things up.

In fact, one leader, in particular, moves his left arm up and down quite a bit, and has a few other things he does that are frowned upon in my classes, yet he's a 'good' dancer otherwise and dances quite regularly with skilled followers.

I notice those things so I don't fall into that category; a leader who has 'bad' technique, no matter how 'skilled' they are.

 

[Tango Newbie]

You are still too analytical and calculating. Tango is about music, and you're not hooked yet. Only then you will become unpredictable, spontaneous and creative. You are still the distant researcher and observer. As soon you really are hooked, I would call you an "advanced beginner". Not now. And excuse my direct manner. Someday I'll greet you with "welcome to the dark side". Then you know you've finally arrived. Looking forward!

Actually I know I'm a 'beginner' who's still grasping the music, so yes, you're right about that. In fact, even my GF said it took a long time to embrace some of the music. I prefaced my 'beginner' status with 'advanced' since I've mastered some more complex steps that even some more advanced leaders aren't dancing, and followers (and instructors, of course) keep telling me how well I'm doing. Since I'm not a 'raw beginner' I'm not sure what you'd call a leader at my level.

While I've danced the club scene for many years, I'll be the first to admit there are a select few tango songs I 'like' and I'm beginning to appreciate more, but not others so much, since to me most of it is a Latin version of our 'sad' country songs here in the US. One thing I'm beginning to appreciate is tango nuevo, and my GF and I plan to go to another studio that plays that at their milonga.

Regarding the spontaneity you describe, I'm actually beginning to incorporate that into my dancing, and not sticking to hard-and-fast steps, including focusing on the 'musicality' (and simpler things).

Tomorrow is a 'beginner' class I go to every week, with a follow-on milonga (that I won't be attending since my GF made the request that we don't go to milongas without each other).
Saturday evening we're going to a milonga at another studio, then on Sunday we have our intermediate-advanced class with a follow-on practalonga that we go to every week. And it has been this way since last summer, with a few more mid-week group classes I go to on occasion. That said, I suspect I'm dancing (and learning) a lot more tango these days than some of the folks posting in here. Then again, maybe I'm wrong.

Thanks for your words of wisdom, and look forward to meeting you on the 'dark side' of the tango orbit!

 

[Tangogal]

Easy l

Actually I know I'm a 'beginner' who's still grasping the music, so yes, you're right about that. In fact, even my GF said it took a long time to embrace some of the music. I prefaced my 'beginner' status with 'advanced' since I've mastered some more complex steps that even some more advanced leaders aren't dancing, and followers (and instructors, of course) keep telling me how well I'm doing. Since I'm not a 'raw beginner' I'm not sure what you'd call a leader at my level.

Oh I call everyone dancing <3 years a beginner! Joke! There’s so much to learn and think about that you could spend a lifetime without getting to advanced. Your level is “improver” not a raw beginner but not yet intermediate. Which I think is the level most of us reach and stay at. I agree with @opendoor that you’re still in analysing and vocabulary building and not yet in interpreting mode.

While I've danced the club scene for many years, I'll be the first to admit there are a select few tango songs I 'like' and I'm beginning to appreciate more, but not others so much, since to me most of it is a Latin version of our 'sad' country songs here in the US. One thing I'm beginning to appreciate is tango nuevo, and my GF and I plan to go to another studio that plays that at their milonga.

Easy listening tango is definitely in my wheelhouse! May I suggest starting with “Por Una Cabezo” ie Scent of a Woman song. And then some nice cheery “Tango Negro” (Condombe but you can dance milonga). After that have a listen to some nice Nuevo/Electro tango. Gotan Project obviously but also Bajofono and Narcotango. I also really like Otros Aires. And if you want to push it a little further Grace Jones “Strange” is great.

 

[Brummbaer]

After that have a listen to some nice Nuevo/Electro tango.

Got to mention El Cachivache - Tango Punk. Tango dance videos with music on YouTube. Also some live gigs in BsAs (La Viruta). Modern reprise of some old orchestra favorites.

There's various lists on the internet, and this forum, of 'popular' AT, including alternative music.

Avoiding Spanish, but keeping the AT flavor, I note Alex Krebs has Tangos in English.

 

[Rabbit]

So, my 'dilemma' has been to be more interesting than the typical beginner, yet make my technique match what followers are really interested in. I hope this makes sense.

Just remember that followers don't all want the same thing.

 

[TTanguero]

Since I'm not a 'raw beginner' I'm not sure what you'd call a leader at my level.

Beginner, as opposed to newbie.

An oft-heard saying is that "everyone's a beginner for the first two years," and I think that's a good rule of thumb. There's a common desire in the UK (and I suspect at least as much in the US) to progress through 'levels' – but there are two issues with this.

First, the classes I was taking in London when I first went to BsAs were labelled 'intermediate' here, while the same kind of ability at DNI was much more appropriately labelled as 'Beginner 2.'

Second, there isn't really any such thing as levels. You can have someone who is very skilled at steps but has zero musicality and an uncomfortable embrace. Someone else who shuffles around, but has a wonderful embrace. Yet another person who only does the simplest steps but dances every note of every song.

My advice is forget all about labels. Focus on your partner, the music, your technique ... and steps as a distant fourth place.

 

[Brummbaer]

My advice is forget all about labels. Focus on your partner, the music, your technique ... and steps as a distant fourth place.

It depends who's asking. For yourself, I'd just go for 'inprover', if you need a label. For any teacher, I guess you set ability to execute some move without thinking: giro...calesita...sacada...lapiz...spin...enrosque....... (in no particular order!). An internet search ought to give some ideas, although I don't think that necessarily fits in with a 'syllabus' concept. I can always improve how I walk, or lead a cross. Some 'schools', with multiple classes, set out something as guidelines. I remember calling some milonga/workshop organizer to see if we'd be out of place. Others simply go: beginner-improver-intermediate (You're 'advanced', so get private lessons).

 

[Tangogal]

It depends who's asking. For yourself, I'd just go for 'inprover', if you need a label. For any teacher, I guess you set ability to execute some move without thinking: giro...calesita...sacada...lapiz...spin...enrosque....... (in no particular order!). An internet search ought to give some ideas, although I don't think that necessarily fits in with a 'syllabus' concept. I can always improve how I walk, or lead a cross. Some 'schools', with multiple classes, set out something as guidelines. I remember calling some milonga/workshop organizer to see if we'd be out of place. Others simply go: beginner-improver-intermediate (You're 'advanced', so get private lessons).

Yes. Going to my first big festival I asked my teacher what level(s) I should sign up for. I was worried that I had aimed too high. She suggested 2 at each of intermediate, int-adv and advanced because anyone who was really advanced wouldn’t be going to lessons! (There was also a maestro level)

Why two at each level? There was a six class deal and I wanted to try out all the teachers.

Now I just sign up to whatever class sounds interesting or to whatever teachers look interesting. Unless I have a partner then we’re limited by whichever of us is the weaker dancer