For Leads: Do you watch how a follower dances before inviting her?

Here is my experience: The shorter ladies very often say to me they wish they were taller. Taller ladies very often say they like the experience of dancing with a tall lead. It is less often that average size ladies commen
Interesting. Shorter ladies often wish to be taller in a general sense but I’ve never heard them (us) say it in a tango specific way. Luckily the taller ladies are preferred for tango here - the men prefer the aesthetic of a woman close to their height (average man is 5’ 10/178cm). They also complain that dancing with short ladies hurts their back - imo if dancing with short followers hurts then there’s something wrong in the technique.

One of my favourite dance partners was a Ukrainian man he towered over me (he was at least 6’4/198cm) and it was never an issue. Our teacher at that time was teeny tiny.

Sebastian Arce favours the midline embrace you described @Tango Distance . It’s definitely the one I find most comfortable but I guess there are just as many who find the whole way across comfortable. It’s great that tango is so adaptable.
 
Veering wildly off topic, but isn't this the dilemma faced by social AT? One needs to know who's a 'good' teacher (both of AT technique AND a teacher), but neither standardisation, nor accreditation, nor levels are really wanted.

A problem for us in our early days was finding and recognising a good AT teacher. Turned out a well-qualified ballroom teacher was the most help (and understood social AT compared to ballroom).
I know of another community that has this problem. They are in a pretty big city but cannot get or keep a tango teacher (or a swing instructor). They hire in teachers from 2hrs away where there’s an oversupply but they just finish out their contracts and it’s back to square one.

For two years they had a Turkish guy who happened to have studied ballroom dance and he became their instructor. It was easier for him to learn online and then teach than for them to try online learning themselves. Then he left the city for work so they were back to six week contracts.

In that situation I think a well run practica would be of benefit. They could share summary videos and experiences from different workshops and train up each other to teach beginner classes. Or club together to pay for online classes for a promising dancer.
 
I know of another community that has this problem. They are in a pretty big city but cannot get or keep a tango teacher (or a swing instructor)
Yes. I know of a couple of communities which are too rural to support a dedicated tango teacher, so they occasionally get a travelling Argentinian, or a 'festival' (it's a pleasant area to visit). In the interim it's up to them - videos, interested and 'better'(?) local. I agree that it can work IF people are interested to investigate and analyse. If, however, you get a 'dance teacher', let's say ballroom, but swing, Latin, whatever, you tend to accept, at least initially, what they say - even if you later find it's downright wrong, or just their interpretation.

The point is that, without diverse contacts, you develop your own 'style' - like always dancing with the same partner who knows what the lead will do, who adjust their embrace to suit themselves, who develop their own codigos, etc. It's the old problem of learning drills, or sequences. If you're continually doing it 'wrong' without some correcting guidance, it becomes embedded. But what's 'wrong' if there's no standard, or group of options?

I don't want to suggest progression grades (except informally for large classes), but it could be helpful to have some accreditation for AT teachers, even at a base level, with affiliation to some overseeing body. That, however, might be the start of a dangerous route.
 
Funny story: there was a total con artist who brought "salsa" to our city pre-youtube. She confidently taught "salsa" three times a week in different venues. All kinds of people sponsored her and hosted dance nights to support her. Then she organized a trip to Cuba- this was her downfall as her loyal fans discovered they hadn't learned anything recognizably "Salsa".

There was more to the story when she pretended to have cancer and set up a fund for her treatment. She had people driving her to the hospital for her appointments and everything - all lies!
 
I don't want to suggest progression grades (except informally for large classes), but it could be helpful to have some accreditation for AT teachers, even at a base level, with affiliation to some overseeing body. That, however, might be the start of a dangerous route.
I think it would be dangerous for our hobby's health.

Unlike, say, medicine or civil engineering, tango poses too little risk to life and limb for the authorities to get behind accreditation. Unlike, say, law or accounting, the socioeconomic stakes are too low to make anybody much care, either. So . . . it'd be purely honor-based and optional, and therefore get layered on top of the current messy situation rather than replace it, creating an "us vs. them" divide that would likely fracture an already-fractured community.

As that analysis suggests, there would also be the question of "Accredited by whom?" Argentine teachers would want to own the process . . . but "tango more-or-less started here" isn't the same as "accessible forms of hobby dance are taught best here." Unless the standards were immediately globalized in English, German, Japanese, Mandarin, Russian, etc., they'd never carry weight outside the Hispanophere. Yet anybody who objected would face cries of "cultural appropriation."

Eventually, it would probably fall to the same universities that offer dance programs today. They're everywhere in my country, anyway. Which would, of course, create a financial barrier to becoming a tango teacher. So, you wouldn't get the best teachers, but the wealthiest or best-connected ones.

In other words, you'd have the same variable standards and cliquishness as we have now, but caused by a new source of confusion.

What makes accreditation work for other dances is competitions. I suppose we could hitch tango accreditation to El Mundial de Tango, but having seen what preparatory courses for El Mundial do, I'm not sure that would be anything but bad for social dance.

I don't know . . . I think I prefer the messy informality we have right now.
 
..a couple of communities which are too rural... occasionally get a travelling.. 'dance teacher', let's say ballroom... you later find it's downright wrong...
You can't just blame the lack of choice in rural areas and those self-appointed teachers.

We have so many technical possibilities that anyone who is interested can get what he needs through YT and other channels.

I learned in a metropolis and experienced 15 different tango teachers in the very first years. Sometimes it is difficult to find the right teachers, even when there is a large number of courses available.

I still believe that the student must be the driving and analyzing force of the learning process, not the teacher.
 
Yet anybody who objected would face cries of "cultural appropriation."
I'd ignore any cry of cultural appropriation. There have been less than sensible questions raised in the internet about Europeans dancing AT, or salsa. So I guess that could also write off waltz outside Germanic countries, or salsa outside Cuba.

I'd generally agree with your comments. You certainly shouldn't need a 'university' qualification to teach AT. Maybe an answer might be levels of teacher. Anyone can start at '1' (ad hoc - thinking of CMM levels) .....progressing through to '5' say for maestro (someone who's acknowledged in some competition, say, but with acknowledged study course in actually teaching). But you need affiliation to some national AT body, which could also look at general protection or insurance issues.

Maybe in-between teaching levels come with some peer assessment, or successful completion of some teaching course.

Doesn't stop the enthusiast starting a course, but you know who's taking an interest in what they do.

Alternatively it's just pot-luck researching and trying diverse teachers - which is essentially what we've done as we've gained experience.

But I don't feel I can complain about different styles, or even fads, unless I've had that diverse experience.
 
We have so many technical possibilities that anyone who is interested can get what he needs through YT and other channels.
Up to a point, though one must acknowledge that not all people can learn from two-dimensional videos on a screen, in the tiny space in their home. I can't, for instance – I need a teacher who can walk around me, and a good-sized studio for me to walk around in. I've tried video lessons . . . no, they are useless to me.
I learned in a metropolis and experienced 15 different tango teachers in the very first years. Sometimes it is difficult to find the right teachers, even when there is a large number of courses available.
This, however, is true. Around here, you can't swing a cat without hitting a tango teacher or studio, and I'm not even counting the non-dedicated dance schools. I suspect that's true of nearly all large cities.

The part that I find mysterious is that my country – Canada – is geographically huge and has relatively few large cities, yet people routinely "commute" into those cities to take lessons. I've met people who were taking weekly lessons at the end of a two-hour drive. Does this not happen in other places? Or are long drives to big cities a uniquely Canadian or at least North American concept?
I'd ignore any cry of cultural appropriation. There have been less than sensible questions raised in the internet about Europeans dancing AT, or salsa. So I guess that could also write off waltz outside Germanic countries, or salsa outside Cuba.
I agree with you here.

Tango is about as Argentine as maple syrup . . . which is to say not very. Sure, I think the Argentines have done the best job of promoting it, and they hosted it for a long time – heck, their country's name is on the box – but they swiped a huge percentage of it from African and European dance. And it took trips to Europe and North America over the years, and came back . . . from Paris with ballet and from the U.S. with jazz.

Long before we had the Internet or the modern vision of globalization, and even before airplanes were affordable to the masses, tango was a truly international dance. I find the Argentine claim to it to be a bit disingenuous. It always smells like teachers trying to earn a quick buck by invoking foreign exoticism.

But . . . the cries of "cultural appropriation" will happen regardless. And right or wrong, they'll taint the learning process.
But you need affiliation to some national AT body, which could also look at general protection or insurance issues.
I doubt that'd ever happen where I live. Nothing like that exists for any dance that I know of. Even ballroom dance – the most regulated, competition-heavy kind – has multiple, mutually unfriendly associations, and these faff about with things like dress codes and compulsory figures, not insurance.
That phrase really needs to be erased from the language, we are in an age where culture propagates globally and the idea that one gets to own an art form through birthright is completely absurd.
I mostly agree, as I said above. Which said, there are exceptions: The indigenous cultures where I live have really, truly been wronged by people who basically shoved their face back and took their arts. I think there is a need to protect the cultures of endangered peoples. But that's something that citizens of countries without such peoples rarely think about.

At any rate, it isn't the case for tango, the "appropriation" of which is on the same footing as the global "appropriation" of Champagne or silk clothing – i.e., maybe it came from somewhere once, but those who were its guardians happily sold it globally and now it's just another luxury you can buy.
 
The concept of cultural appropriation reminds me of this quote from Henry Louis Gates Jr..

The idea that you have to look like the subject to master the subject was a prejudice that our forebears — women seeking to write about men, Black people seeking to write about white people — were forced to challenge. ... Any teacher, any student, any reader, any writer, sufficiently attentive and motivated, must be able to engage freely with subjects of their choice. That is not only the essence of learning; it’s the essence of being human.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/12/books/review/freedom-literary-expression-henry-louis-gates.html

I will say, though, that there was something unique about the mix of influences that produced tango. There was a similar, but not identical, mix of influences in the United States that produced blues, ragtime, jazz, and the dances that went with them. There are other examples of dances or styles of music that were unique and from a distinct location. Samba also comes to mind.
So, I guess for me, no matter how global it has become, tango will always be an Argentine export.
 
One of the things that can be difficult for me at the moment is interpreting 'when' the song ends so I can stop at the right time.
I think familiarity with the music helps. When I started the Beginners, Package included a CD with Tango, Vals, & Milonga pieces so we could learn to distinguish & become familiar with each.
, try asking for the name and orchestra of a classical piece that you like. Save it on your smartphone and try to memorize it.
also put the Shazam app on your phone. You can quickly identify the music & orchestra & listen outside of the milonga.
https://www.shazam.com/apps

Watch You Tube videos of others dancing to the music. For example (shameless promotion): https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXz0zoMnL7Ilfz1kIBEobKg
or a more polished, professional channel like
along with videos of regular social dancers

You are watching to learn how dancers interpret the dynamics of the music, pauses, tempo variations etc,
 
The part that I find mysterious is that my country – Canada – is geographically huge and has relatively few large cities, yet people routinely "commute" into those cities to take lessons. I've met people who were taking weekly lessons at the end of a two-hour drive. Does this not happen in other places? Or are long drives to big cities a uniquely Canadian or at least North American concept?
I do this, in europe. There are options that are much closer to where i live, but i decided to take the best lessons that i could get in my country. I feel that for the focus and feedback i get from my teacher, doing this for private lessons is worth the travel time.
 
The part that I find mysterious is that my country – Canada – is geographically huge and has relatively few large cities, yet people routinely "commute" into those cities to take lessons. I've met people who were taking weekly lessons at the end of a two-hour drive. Does this not happen in other places? Or are long drives to big cities a uniquely Canadian or at least North American concept?
Not a chance! I’m exhausted after a long drive and wouldn’t be safe on the return leg of the journey. I know of two dancers who died driving home after events.

Aside from driver fatigue the cost of diesel is prohibitive so I’ll drive for bigger events but not routinely.
 
Not a chance! I’m exhausted after a long drive and wouldn’t be safe on the return leg of the journey. I know of two dancers who died driving home after events.

Aside from driver fatigue the cost of diesel is prohibitive so I’ll drive for bigger events but not routinely.
We recently did a round trip to dance most of two hours from here, but with three drivers to rotate among. I agree that one driver, all the way there and all the way back, would be unwise for both dancing and safety. To be honest, all the commuting dancers I know do this . . . it's a group, sometimes as many as six or eight in a sizeable SUV, most of them drivers.
 

Dance Ads

Advertise on Dance Forums Reach dancers, teachers, studios, event organizers, and dance-friendly brands. View ad options
Back
Top