For Leads: Do you watch how a follower dances before inviting her?

[itwillhappen]

I also dislike hair in the eyes and sweat on the face, but those things aren't cultural, either. I have terrible eyes and need to dance with glasses to avoid catastrophe, so it's dangerous to have hair tangled in my glasses (blinding). I also pay above-average attention to my senses other than sight, so things touching my face are inordinately distracting.

Below the neck, my partner can clamp on to me like an octopus, for all I care.

For me - dancing cheek to cheek with glasses would not be an option, however. And I assume a sane partner.

 

[itwillhappen]

I might have missed this somewhere in the thread, but how important is the posture for you guys when watching someone dancing (leader or follower) in order to asses if you would like to dance with a particular person? Would you make a compromise between maybe not the best posture but a relaxed upper body(ie shoulders)/way of dancing?

For me - posture. Relaxation can still get achieved when dancing.

 

[opendoor]

..how important is the posture for you guys... in order to asses if you would like to dance with a particular person?

It's absolutely irrelevant to me!

Every dance invitation is an offer. And then the negotiations for the small print begin in seconds. One result is the respective hold.

Maybe I'm a bit oldfashioned, but I don't choose the hold based on the follower, I choose it based on the music.

I dance..
d'Arienzo, Biagi, de Angelis in milonguero/apilado hold,
Pugliese, Caló, Salamanca in salón hold,
neo and nuevo in open hold.

I signal my contract offer through my attitude. I stretch my left hand for milonguero, my right hand for salón (because it's closed there), and I stretch out both hands out for open hold. A follower must not have learned these signals. Anyone will understand them intuitively.

 

[Reuven Thetanguero]

I might have missed this somewhere in the thread, but how important is the posture for you guys when watching someone dancing (leader or follower) in order to asses if you would like to dance with a particular person? Would you make a compromise between maybe not the best posture but a relaxed upper body(ie shoulders)/way of dancing?

These aspects of dancing - posture and relaxed upper body - are secondary to me. If I see a follower having fun and enjoying the dance, that's what I am looking for.

 

[Brummbaer]

but how important is the posture

Depends how that 'posture' has arisen. Normal life posture or dance posture. If it's down to the miles on the clock, I'm not going to avoid that person. My own posture isn't too great thanks to driving too many computer systems from my office desk for too many years, however, thanks to dancing, I can still adjust it.

If you're referring to 'dance posture', such as raised/lowered arm, open/closed hold, cheek-to-cheek, looking down at feet, or similar, then maybe, or maybe whether I'd invite if the opportunity arose again.

 

[Bailango]

I had a ganglion cyst on my right wrist for 15-20years. I was stubborn about getting it removed as it only flared up a few times a month.

Wrist twisting is common and uncomfortable. Many followers are taught to just accept whatever hand hold is offered and can easily tolerate their wrists being bent back or twisted to a certain degree. like say holding up your hand to say “stop”. This doesn’t make it correct or mean that another hand hold would be more comfortable. It usually means that the followers don’t want to make a fuss.

Minor discomfort or no discomfort to one person can be excruciating pain to another. Ideally there should be no pressure on anyones wrist. So flat wrists are best!

Edit: I’ve seen followers wince in pain and try to adjust the open hand hold but never say anything to the leader. I’ve seen followers remove their jewellery to dance with a particular partner. Why? Because their fingers get squeezed.

I see the open side hand hold problems with both the leaders and followers. Personally I don’t experience it with good followers no matter whether they have been dancing for a year or ten years. There are many followers who will do things like hang their weight off my left hand, push hard against it, use it to balance themselves, extending it too far like in ballroom tango, and or move their hand excessively.

By the leaders I observe tight grips, holding arm too high for the follower, twisting the follower’s palm, juggling their left hand up and down, and back and forth.

 

[ardix]

If you're referring to 'dance posture', such as raised/lowered arm, open/closed hold, cheek-to-cheek, looking down at feet, or similar...

Yes, I am referring to the dance posture and particularly to the own axis.

 

[Cabbit]

These aspects of dancing - posture and relaxed upper body - are secondary to me. If I see a follower having fun and enjoying the dance, that's what I am looking for.

That could be a dealbreaker for me. More often than not, a tense leader with a strange dance posture who is having fun and enjoying the dance means that he is enjoying the dance alone. And his enjoyment in the movement translates to roughnes. So in the best case scenario it feels like dancing with a stone wall, in the worst with a creative washing machine.

 

[opendoor]

..referring to the dance posture and particularly to the own axis..

? The former aspect is style, the latter is skills ?

 

[ardix]

? The former aspect is style, the latter is skills ?

I am not so sure, I didn't think of it in terms of categories but yes, maybe we can do that. However, I think the relation to the own axis is automatically influencing the posture and ultimately the personal style. But if you consider style as the manner of dancing, then yes.

 

[opendoor]

..think the relation to the own axis is automatically influencing.. the personal style..

Many think so, I do not. If you consciously want to dance apilado hold and cling and hang onto your partner, actually this is not style, its simply inability. Lean is illusion.

 

[ardix]

actually this is not style, its simply inability. Lean is illusion.

well...inability resulting in a hanging style

Joke aside, if style is something that one consciously adopts and strives to achieve, then the ability to sustain the own axis is fundamental. A more arbitrary/relaxed/common usage of the word `style` refers to the way someone is dancing (consciously or not), a result of different elements (personality, level of technique etc.)

For me, the axis is the main element in one's posture, the position of the elbows or the rigidity being others for example.

 

[Rabbit]

I might have missed this somewhere in the thread, but how important is the posture for you guys when watching someone dancing (leader or follower) in order to asses if you would like to dance with a particular person? Would you make a compromise between maybe not the best posture but a relaxed upper body(ie shoulders)/way of dancing?

Important. I find followers with bad posture on or off the dance floor to be generally uncomfortable to dance with. I don't know if the same applies to leaders.

 

[JournalInTime]

Important. I find followers with bad posture on or off the dance floor to be generally uncomfortable to dance with. I don't know if the same applies to leaders.

My partner in life and dance says bad posture is off-putting in a leaders. She doesn't accept invitations from stooped dancers. Advancing the head is another bad one. Our coach is huge on what she calls the "wedding cake" model: spinal column stacked vertically like the layers of a cake (one can do this and still share lots of weight). Thus, my partner won't dance with men who put their head in her space.

At the level of the human body, the thing I find worst is less posture and more a lack of flexibility. When I want to change levels to go very low, that calls for knee flexibility. When I lead a spiral movement, that calls for torso flexibility. And so on. I'll dance with friends who can't manage it for various health reasons, but I'm not going to invite random strangers who are clearly stiff.

The two are linked. A lot of people stiffen the body to maintain posture, or can't maintain posture when they bend their knees deeply, dissociate, etc.

So, I guess my partner and I watch posture, flexibility, and other measures of basic athleticism – though mostly subconsciously. I'm not sure that's a natural bias for either of us. I think it comes from our tango coach being a career yoga and Pilates instructor who doesn't tolerate unathletic dancing.

 

[JournalInTime]

For me, the axis is the main element in one's posture, the position of the elbows or the rigidity being others for example.

Axis is important, but for me that's more about the shared axis. I find standing upright like two pins with a slight gap between my partner and me to be unpleasant. It's possible to get close enough to maintain spinal alignment while having enough contact to function as one person with four legs and a single axis. That's my gold standard for dancing, and I'll always invite people who can dance that way before people who cannot.

Elbows can be troublesome, too. The issue that bugs me most is followers who want almost straight arms on the open side: out, a little up, with almost no elbow bend, forming something like a rigid frame. It's dangerous for other couples, and also tiring for the arm. I really prefer a more relaxed, slightly flexible open side with the elbows bent a fair bit and pointing toward the ground. It narrows the couple's profile, removes a dangerous (to others) high elbow, and doesn't result in tired biceps.