ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
Yes that one and this book: https://abrazosbooks.com/en/catalog/the-quest-for-the-embrace/
Get Outta There!!
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ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
Wouldn't you also watch them dance first?
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
Every beginner where? It's not true universally.
JournalInTime
Forum Master
That's my tango life, right there. The top snobs will do their thing and I really couldn't care less . . . status has never mattered to me, or I wouldn't have spent the past 27+ years at a mediocre-paying job in a niche industry. I care about comfort and only that. I'm a "work to live" person professionally and I extend that to dance. I bear no ill will toward "live to work" people, but that's not me professionally and definitely not me at the milonga.
Yes, he markets his observations and research well.
That's why I said "above average". I don't care about social hierarchy and don't really watch the dance floor either. My experience is just that the people I want to dance with and myself will usually find each other naturally.
opendoor
Forum Master
At least in NYC
But those who believe their first teacher and stay with him for 5 years without changing studios, watching YT, reading books is not to help. Don't blame the teacher or the remote place at the end of the world. Learning is an active process.
And it's a gender issue. Inflexibility and narrow-mindedness would not grow if men wood preferred learn from female teachers!
When I travel: as a follower I often get to watch the dance floor but not always the leaders I dance with.
Beggars can’t be choosers! The gender imbalance and my natural reticence combine to net me fewer dances in an evening than an average leader. I foresee this issue worsening as I age and become less desirable as a dance partner. I’m currently at the point where I receive as many invites as my body allows but far less than my heart desires
So I accept dances from strangers that I haven’t seen dance. I judge their posture from their stance. If they stand in a funny way they probably dance in a funny way. If they dress in a shabby manner they probably don’t smell very nice. If they pop in and out often they probably smoke.
Partner roulette means I have to be adaptable! It often leads to great dances. The key is not to fight with the partner.
Beggars can’t be choosers! The gender imbalance and my natural reticence combine to net me fewer dances in an evening than an average leader. I foresee this issue worsening as I age and become less desirable as a dance partner. I’m currently at the point where I receive as many invites as my body allows but far less than my heart desires
So I accept dances from strangers that I haven’t seen dance. I judge their posture from their stance. If they stand in a funny way they probably dance in a funny way. If they dress in a shabby manner they probably don’t smell very nice. If they pop in and out often they probably smoke.
Partner roulette means I have to be adaptable! It often leads to great dances. The key is not to fight with the partner.
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And to choose male teachers who don’t follow the Maestro + Assistant model of teaching. Better to learn from two full teachers than one and a half!At least in NYC
But those who believe their first teacher and stay with him for 5 years without changing studios, watching YT, reading books is not to help. Don't blame the teacher or the remote place at the end of the world. Learning is an active process.
And it's a gender issue. Inflexibility and narrow-mindedness would not grow if men wood preferred learn from female teachers!
Actually, it's exactly what happened to me. It was the beginning of the milonga, and I made a cabeceo to one of the women who had arrived (and who had already danced a tanda). She accepted, and slid into a V-embrace with me, with which I was almost completely unfamiliar at the time. The V-embrace can be very functional, but it is limiting for certain figures, which is what tangomaniac was complaining about when he originally started the thread. She certainly had the ability to dance in other embraces, but this was the one she had choses with me, and she was clearly asserting this choice through the embrace, I could feel that. I was very anxious to adapt, but I'd be lying if I didn't say there was some "learning on the go" for me during that tanda as I adjusted to new choreographic constraints. I only afterwards found out that she was one of the top teachers in that city (a smaller city in Turkey).
In my home community in the US, close embrace with parallel chests is the standard, and some leaders dance so rarely in open embrace that it feels limiting for them. Unfortunately, some leaders believe that their own sense of competence takes precedence over their follower's comfort, and will try to convince or even pressure a follower into a close embrace she does not want. This always unacceptable.
itwillhappen
Forum Master
I think the principle is always the same:
Either one reaches a satisfactory tanda with the expectations and abilities one has at the moment or not.
If yes, all good. If no, then there are reasonable options: either one does not repeat the attempt (too often) or one tries to develop the skills further or one lowers the expectations.
And that applies to my opponent, of course, so maybe I don't have a choice and it's game over, or I don't have to do anything and everything gets better.
Who is healthy, good-looking, young, talented and wealthy can accept all of this with ease, while others may need mental strength for this. Dissatisfaction arises when one's own starting position is not satisfactory.
I am currently avoiding a V-embrace. But who knows, I might reconsider under different conditions. Maybe someday I'll dance even double-role. And hopefully then I won't be dissatisfied with it.
opendoor
Forum Master
That's alright, isn't it. The leader makes an offer, but in the end it's the lady who decides what kind of embrace she wants. I signal my offer with the hand I hold out: right hand means V, left hand milonguero. But its an offer, nothing more.
But it opens up other possibilities, especially in the crossed system. In this respect, it does not limit.
That's no excuse, because the internet connects you to the rest of the world. I think the beginner phase ends in the moment you stop believing and following your first teacher. Everyone determines the speed of his own progress. And some remain eternal beginners if they don't leave the orbit of their first teacher or usual community.
itwillhappen
Forum Master
Yes - and the advanced phase begins when you adjust your environment to your preferences. Either by traveling to suitable events or by building a micro-community around you.
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
Oh, most of my teachers were women. Only one was a man.At least in NYC
But those who believe their first teacher and stay with him for 5 years without changing studios, watching YT, reading books is not to help. Don't blame the teacher or the remote place at the end of the world. Learning is an active process.
And it's a gender issue. Inflexibility and narrow-mindedness would not grow if men wood preferred learn from female teachers!