Good dancers don't ask, beginning dancers I want to refuse

DanceMentor

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Ok. First be nice. :)

A lady student asked me...

Good dancers don't ask me to dance at the party, but total beginners make me uncomfortable, and I am starting refuse them as politely as possible. For example, last week my leader was blocking the line of dance, and it was very awkward.

Any advice you would give her?
 
Ok. First be nice. :)

A lady student asked me...

Good dancers don't ask me to dance at the party, but total beginners make me uncomfortable, and I am starting refuse them as politely as possible. For example, last week my leader was blocking the line of dance, and it was very awkward.

Any advice you would give her?


My main piece of advice would be if advanced dancers don't ask her, she could always ask them.
 
I concur with the "ask them", though I limit myself to asking a more advanced leader once per event. See if you can help her get more comfortable dancing with the beginning leaders. I was given suggestions by my teacher years ago--set the frame for the couple rather than going by the leader (though appropriate for the level of dance), help with things like moving down the LOD ("Oh, I think we're blocking the line of dance"), keep more of an eye out for potential collisions than I normally would.
 
Stop refusing beginners. The more you're seen dancing, the more people will ask you. Plus, working with those beginners will actually make you better as you will have to try on your own balance, etc. more.

A more snarky response is "why should more advanced dancers dance with you when you won't do the same for ones less experienced?"
 
Unfortunately, I am rarely in a position to observe what happens with the beginners. I think mainly she is just hoping to get over the hump so to speak, and make more friends with more advanced dancers. Probably it would be helpful to talk to them when they are not dancing. Then in time she will become more familiar to them.
 
Ok. First be nice. :)
Good dancers don't ask me to dance at the party, but total beginners make me uncomfortable, and I am starting refuse them as politely as possible. For example, last week my leader was blocking the line of dance, and it was very awkward.

I call this the Groucho Marx phase of social dancing ("I would never join a club that would have me as a member"). I think most people go through this at some point. There's no way out except to (1) become a better dancer, and (2) learn to enjoy dancing with your peers (in this case, other beginning dancers).
 
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I have no advice for refusing beginner dancers other than bearing in mind that almost everything that goes wrong on the floor is his fault, so nothing to get embarrassed about for you.

As far as not getting asked to dance (if you don't want to step up and ask yourself) are you:
1) Sitting, then stand
2) Smiling, if not start
3) Engaged with the music in some small way, if not, tap, sway, sing, whatever.
4) Engaged in conversation, if so break away and make yourself available.
 
Here's a possibility to consider: the reason the advanced dancers don't want to dance with you is the same reason that your beginner leader got stuck, and that would be you. Probably not, but possibly. I do try out beginning ladies, my basic requirement is "Don't push me, don't pull me, don't hang on me, follow me as best you can." Most women, even newbies off the street, meet this requirement at least well enough for me to ask them to dance once an evening. But a small minority are like refrigerators, or perhaps some would call them "sofas". That can make it impossible for a beginning leader and not fun even for a more advanced leader who can handle a difficult follow.

If you haven't, I suggest getting a competent instructor to evaluate your basic partnering skills.
 
Well, start with the usual advice: Be near the edge of the floor, and visible to leads looking for dances. Wear clothes that are attractive but not blatantly exposing. Have good hygiene. Keep a smile on your face. Don't back-lead (well, maybe a little if you have a really green partner), don't criticize your partners, and don't be an on-the-floor teacher.

Now, let's talk honestly for a bit. At the studio that I dance at most often, I'm one of the more advanced dancers, and I know all of the regulars. I will usually notice when there is a new follower, and if she seems like she wants to dance, I will make it a point at some time in the first hour to go ask her. But if she's been sitting in the back all evening, and I haven't seen her dance at all... well, it's not like I'm intentionally ignoring her. I do try to dance with every woman in the house at least once. But, speaking frankly: When I return to the edge of the floor after a dance, there will often be at least one, and sometimes more than one, of the regular follows trying to get my attention for a dance. And, well, it's just easier: do I go seek out that unfamiliar follow who hasn't accepted a dance that I've seen, and doesn't appear to enjoy being there? Or do I dance with a familiar partner who is eager to dance with me? Yes, I will keep an eye on that woman in the back. But if I observe that she's turning other partners down, and just doesn't look like she really wants to be there, I may not bother.

And note that I will never not ask a woman, or turn down a woman who asks me, just because she's a beginner. There's quite a lot to be learned from dancing with beginners. And dancing needs ambassadors. If not me, who?

Is your instructor there? If so, can you get him to dance with you a few times? Instructors can be quite helpful in introducing you to other leads and breaking the ice. If an instructor asks me to dance with one of his students, I'll do it as soon as a dance comes around that is suitable for beginners. Similarly, if you introduce yourself to me, I will ask you. Maybe not right then, but I'll get to you. I will never turn down a lady who asks me, unless there's a damn good reason. ("Good reason" would be something like: stone drunk, very rude, or smells bad.)

So my advice is: you've got to seem like you want to be there. That means you may have to accept dances with at least some of those beginners, so you can be seen on the floor and those advanced dancers will know that you are there to dance. Make it clear that you want to dance, and you aren't just there to hang out. Talk to people. Tell them about what you're doing, what dances you like, and what type of dancing you're interested in, and so forth. Put yourself out there a bit. Then see what happens. It may be a process that takes a while, so be patient. But if you find you still just aren't having any success, maybe you need to look for another venue. Some places just have a weird vibe and there's nothing you can do about it.
 
Stop refusing beginners. The more you're seen dancing, the more people will ask you. Plus, working with those beginners will actually make you better as you will have to try on your own balance, etc. more.

A more snarky response is "why should more advanced dancers dance with you when you won't do the same for ones less experienced?"

When I was a beginner, it was hard for me to find dance partners, often even among fellow beginners among a group of people from my studio who went out dancing together. It was painful. There were a few ladies in the local community who were very (very!) patient with my beginner self, and that was a big reason I was able to progress beyond my beginner stages. I always remembered both the pain and the kindness.

When I became skilled and comfortable in the local social dance scene, I more or less had my pick of partners. I typically avoided ladies who exclusively sought advanced leads and were clearly unwilling to extend their patience to beginners. I also tended to avoid groups that included a beginner gentleman, if I saw that said gentleman wasn't getting at least a few chances to dance. Ladies of all skill levels who were kind/patient with beginner leaders, however....

Plus, the point above about the value of working with beginners for one's own dancing is spot-on.
 
It's easier to get asked to dance at the start of a new dance if you are already on the floor to accept.

Dance with beginners. We were all beginners once.
 
Love all the advice so far. Especially agree with the advice about being obviously available (esp as the current dance is beginning and the next dance is imminent... you want to be on the edge of the floor ready to go for that), dancing with beginners, and taking the initiative to ask others to dance. I had a meltdown years ago (not one of my finer moments) because I wasn't being asked to dance, and my instructor explained some things to me including that I had to be more assertive and understanding of others' POV.

She's more than likely not going to be amenable to this approach, but if I find myself w/o a partner bc too many women, or sometimes w/o any skilled partners for a dance like salsa, v waltz, samba, bolero, etc, I will often go out on the floor and dance solo by myself, of course careful not to disturb the couples (other than visually, which is somewhat unavoidable bc it admittedly looks odd). This may involve either genuine practicing or just experimenting to the music. You would be amazed at how often a lead, often advanced, materializes out of nowhere to put a stop to this.
 
I am simply going to go back to what I know I have said a many times before...social dances are not generally places where dreams come true....they are messy...and the sooner people who attend them accept that, the sooner they will actually be able to enjoy them....if you want the ideal dance experience, you can buy it, but it will cost more than a party does....

(I also echo the idea of asking people to dance...this is 2017...it is not the guy's job...and, WRT new guys, absent the ones with whom it actually hurts to dance, it is basic courtesy to say "yes")
 
I'm just going to repeat this. I asked for help in how to dance with a variety of leaders, including beginners. My teacher at the time had to figure out how to approximate the types of leads that I was getting. :rofl: If there was something specific I was having trouble following, we would work on it more so that I could either follow better or "fill in" when necessary. He paid enough attention during parties to help with things he saw go less than stellar, and he offered advise about how to deal with, oh, a leader who did things like go against the LOD. A lot of this is not obvious to a newish follow and not all students would want to spend lesson time on. I did and I let my teacher know that. Note that the student said she felt uncomfortable dancing with the beginner leads, not that she was too good/snobbish/etc. to dance with them. IME, it is worthwhile to learn how to do so.
 
I am simply going to go back to what I know I have said a many times before...social dances are not generally places where dreams come true....they are messy...and the sooner people who attend them accept that, the sooner they will actually be able to enjoy them....if you want the ideal dance experience, you can buy it, but it will cost more than a party does....

Amen sister.

I have never had anyone express it this well.

I frequently tell beginner male friends that only the love of the dance will make them stick it out, at least based on the social venues I go to. This is also why I laugh when people buy into the "meet sexy ladies" marketing hype. Because there are tons of sexy ladies on the floor, but a lot of them will not pay you any mind until you earn it (read: you can complex stuff continuously without throwing them off their axis). I learned once, for example, that some ladies will turn you down because they have a crush on that fantastic leader dude and they want to be unoccupied should he sashay their way. At a point I just learned to shake it off and move on.

I believe EVERYONE should dance with beginners. All beginners could use the practice and the encouragement, and we were all beginners once.
 

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