Growing Old in Tango

[Steve Pastor]

Melina wrote
what if I become too old to dance at all?
Well, it's going to happen eventually no matter how much we take care of ourselves, or continue to have the good fortune or bounce when we fall instead of break. or tear (calcium, weight bearing exercise, vitamin D3... you know the drill, if not learn it)

 

[tangoing]

Hi fiesta, I think there is a difference between Argentine, American and English tango. The role of physical athleticism in these styles increases from left to right.

I'll just put a thesis in this space: Is physical athleticism perhaps simply a lack of technique??

In showdance it's all about maximum impression with minimum effort. For me, the ability to effortless movement was always a self-imposed goal.

How would you define the differences between Argentine/American/European tango?

 

[TTanguero]

At the same time it seems to me that dancers of all ages could benefit from classes in physical conditioning and healthy body movement to prevent injuries before they occur and these are not really being offered

I think most tango dancers look to other disciplines for this – pilates, gyrotonics, yoga, Tai Chi, etc.

 

[opendoor]

How would you define the differences between Argentine/American/European tango?

That is too complicated for me now. There should be a thread here about the origin of French tango from the Argentine style. But I can't find the link anymore. At some point, the English said goodbye to the till then shared style book. They later absorbed all remaining styles except Finnish and Argentinian tango. In my opinion, the American tango is the youngest style of the three. If I remember right, fiesta is expert for American tango! But we should move this topic if you want to go deeper, as it is a bit off topic.
-Argentine
-American
-English

 

[LadyLeader]

If not tango I would not train 5-6 days a week and my weight would be the double maybe!
In other word it is clearly beneficial for me to stick to tango when getting older!

 

[Brummbaer]

Having passed through the 3 score and ten portal, I feel I can coment on aspects of Growing Old in Tango personally. It rather amused me recently that someone younger asked how my day at work had been and seemed surprised that I was retired (ah, flattery)

Of course the 'teachers' seem younger! But not all (thinking of an 80+ year old AT teacher). For some age brings a maturity and skill to their teaching, but generally that's just experience. If they've been involved in AT/dance for a lifetime, then they understand more. 'Athleticism' doesn't necessarily come into it, but you have to be sufficiently fit, and really you exert minimum effort to achieve something rather than brute force.

The emphasis also seems to be on 'teachers', but ignores that special class of 'coaches'. In any case you get to a point where additional vocabulary doesn't matter significantly; it's how you put it together. Remember the 'back to walking' (Gavito?). I value more someone pointing out how I could improve some move, for me and my partner, rather than showing me some completely new sequence.

Dancing (in other forms) was our 'keep fit' regime away from the desk job. Yes, there was other exercise. So what now? Pay for the gym, or pilates, or .... Well, regular hikes and as much 'gardening' as possible (we have allotments for vegetable growing). Don't have time for extra exercise! Nevertheless, some idea ahead that we'll have to give some of that up with ageing, but not intending to become a couch potato for daytime TV (or any other internet media).

Doubtless there will come a time when it's not possible. Most likely not living in a barrio and walking to the nearest milonga, but being sufficiently fit to drive there, or having public transport to other venues at appropriate times (or even public transport at all).

Another aspect, not yet addressed, is of becoming the old guy with the young follower(s), or the invisible older follower who doesn't get invited so much. And, of course, age appropriate attire (please, not beige).

 

[Brummbaer]

How would you define the differences between Argentine/American/European tango?

Agree with @opendoor - it is too complicated for a short comment. My vastly simplified summary would be:

Argentine Tango originated as a social dance in Argentina. It was taken to Europe and sanitized, and then even more for the American audience. It remains a 'social' dance, but also exists in other forms of ballroom dance as sport for the wealthy (ignoring ballroom 'socials').

We're usually talking about 'social' AT as part of that heritage from Argentina, but then there are sub-divisions of nuevo, neo, Fantasia, competitive, etc., etc.

E&OE - do your own research to fill in the massive ommisions.

 

[opendoor]

..Remember the 'back to walking' (Gavito...

But the young, acrobatic Gavito of "Forever Tango" delighted older aficionados, while the frail late Gavito inspired the youth.

 

[Brummbaer]

But the young, acrobatic Gavito of "Forever Tango" delighted older aficionados, while the frail late Gavito inspired the youth.

Maybe it wasn't Gavito but Zotto. My point is that you initially want those 'wow' moves; then you want to go back to 'basics' to do them better and finesse them. Whether that's walking, the cross, ochos, giros, volcadas, barridas, paradas, colgadas... You can do them, sort of; now learn to do them better. That doesn't rule out some new, 'wow', move.

Sure, you look at some youthful performer and it reminds you of your aspirations. Maybe some learn that at a younger age.

But then we look at some of the salvaged videos of older dancers from the GA. Not always a great life being older.

 

[opendoor]

...doesn't rule out some new, 'wow', move.

However, the question is, and probably every dancer answers it differently, whether it is the health coordinates that determine the next developmental step in learning, or whether it is your stylistic preference.
I wrote that the youth were interested in the old Gavito, while the previous Tango cohort preferred to learn salti and dips in quadruple tempo from the young Gavito.

 

[Brummbaer]

whether it is the health coordinates that determine the next developmental step in learning, or whether it is your stylistic preference

Both. You choose your style, or selection of styles. Health determines your ability to achieve that. That might be old injuries, general fitness, degenerative mental abilities, or environmental (e.g. finance, travel). And, underlying that, a desire.

Some of us got to AT through a desire for something else; others may want to leave it behind for similar reasons.

 

[opendoor]

You know that I've aged in tango. For orthopedic reasons, I can only dance for 30 minutes, then the pain becomes too great. Nevertheless, I stayed tanguero. At milongas I chat at the bar. I collect shellac records from the GA, I dj every now and then and I learn bandoneón.
Very different my girlfriend. She can no longer dance in hi-heels due to orthopedic reasons. All sneakers and ballet slippers are ugly. So she has banned tango from her life entirely. She can't stand it at all when my friends in the restaurant suddenly start tango themes. For her, going to the milonga means dressing up, being sexy and irresistible. Her rule is all or nothing, mine at least a little bit.

 

[JournalInTime]

Some of the words here make me feel so young at 55 . . . even though I'm older than almost everyone at three of the milongas I attend. Of course, I'm younger than just about everyone at three others, and about average for all the rest.

There are definitely different factors at play when it comes to aging and tango:

Acceptance. However long you've danced, however wise you become about tango, however much respect you feel you've earned . . . once you become "the old man" or "the old woman," people who are younger, fitter, and closer to their lessons won't invite you as often. While dancing at the milonga for a long time is educational, it's at lessons that we're reminded of errors to fix and given interesting new ideas to explore. Once the people who are on the sharp edge of their tango learning stop dancing with us, we're dancing with peers who have vaguer memories and more deeply entrenched bad habits, and therefore dancing less well than we might desire. Even at 55, I'm feeling this despite working hard with a coach – at those milongas where I'm older than just about everyone, my cabeceos might as well be aimed at the coatrack.

Aesthetics. Part of the reason why people who are younger, fitter, and closer to their lessons won't invite you as often is that you don't look like somebody they want to dance with and/or be seen dancing with. It's easy to dismiss "I'll dance sexy or not at all!" as shallow, but hey, cabeceo/mirada is by definition about looking at someone. If you're starting to sag, wrinkle, and gray, and have to wear clothing and especially shoes designed to offer extra support to an aging body, you're going to be looked at less often. Where I disagree is with suggestions that this is something that happens to women but not men. It's possible that my "Silver Fox" card was lost in the mail, but I think part of why my cabeceos go straight to coatrack is that I'm not one of the younger, more vigorous guys who get 95% of the tandas with the more advanced followers.

Athleticism. The other part of why people who are younger, fitter, and closer to their lessons won't invite you as often is that age bring a certain inevitable loss of balance, flexibility, speed, strength, etc. It's less fun to dance with you because you can do less. Of course we can work out, eat well, take vitamins, see a physiotherapist, and otherwise do our best to retain our capabilities . . . but we can't undo the majority of the cellular and molecular damage that occurs over time. Tango itself can damage parts of you this way; too much tango can actually make you less able to dance tango.

Energy. A key attribute that declines with age is endurance, stamina, energy. Even if you can keep it high for the duration of one evening, you can't go to as many milongas in a week and probably can't stay as late as you'd like. Lately, with long COVID and the strain of having to move house (another story, but blame my landlord), I'm unable to "cheat" by taking naps and conserving energy throughout the day to function as well for as long at 55 as I did at 25 or 35 or even 45. It'll probably be worse at 65 and 75. And if you aren't at the milonga, or present for the final hour when the music gets cooler and there's more space to dance to it, you aren't visible to those who might dance with you, which feeds back into the not getting invited as often.

Expense. This varies a lot with where you live, but in many places – my area included – retired people are often living on fixed incomes. Sure, some salted away a lifetime of savings, got lucky in the market, and are living their best lives. The majority are not; they're dealing with having less than ever. When you have less money, you can afford fewer events, lessons, pairs of shoes, and all the rest. Tango can price itself out of the market, and even if it doesn't, the lack of money feeds back into getting more distant from lessons, dressing less well and looking less interesting, and going out and being seen less often. As a person who came from no money, had modest jobs, lost his investments in a divorce, etc., this is a serious fear for me. I think I'm more likely to be unable to afford tango than unable to dance tango.

 

[JournalInTime]

Three comments on my own words, separated to avoid making a long post even longer:

Even at 55, I'm feeling this despite working hard with a coach – at those milongas where I'm older than just about everyone, my cabeceos might as well be aimed at the coatrack [...] I'm not one of the younger, more vigorous guys who get 95% of the tandas with the more advanced followers.

What's especially frustrating to me is when I see younger, fitter, more handsome dancers who have terrible, terrible technique arm-leading and otherwise muscling advanced tangueras unmusically through oversized steps . . . yet still getting to dance with those advanced tangueras while I get ignored by them.

It's less fun to dance with you because you can do less.

Not everyone agrees, but we ignore athleticism at our peril. There's this whole belief that if you're musical, everyone will find you fun to dance with. All things being equal, that's true. However, I've had a huge number of followers tell me that what they like as much as musicality are surprises and comfort. "Surprises" is a euphemism for showy and athletic moves: "Oh, my! Nobody ever leads me in those big, deep volcadas. You're so fun!" Comfort is about the embrace, and sorry, but that suffers as your balance, flexibility, and posture erode; a comfortable embrace is stable, conformal, and nonintrusive, and is harder to maintain without good physicality.

I think I'm more likely to be unable to afford tango than unable to dance tango.

This fear nips at my ankles even now. I have hundreds of tango friends on social media. I see their festival photos in wonderful locations. I don't suffer from FOMO (much), but I do feel envious. I know in my heart that dancing with lots of people of many different cultures, taking occasional workshops with many different masters, and having more free hours in the day and free days in the year to go off and do such things in the first place is going to make them more desirable partners with more years of tango ahead of them than me.

 

[LadyLeader]

Some of the words here make me feel so young at 55 . . . even though I'm older than almost everyone at three of the milongas I attend. Of course, I'm younger than just about everyone at three others, and about average for all the rest.

There are definitely different factors at play when it comes to aging and tango:

Acceptance. However long you've danced, however wise you become about tango, however much respect you feel you've earned . . . once you become "the old man" or "the old woman," people who are younger, fitter, and closer to their lessons won't invite you as often. While dancing at the milonga for a long time is educational, it's at lessons that we're reminded of errors to fix and given interesting new ideas to explore. Once the people who are on the sharp edge of their tango learning stop dancing with us, we're dancing with peers who have vaguer memories and more deeply entrenched bad habits, and therefore dancing less well than we might desire. Even at 55, I'm feeling this despite working hard with a coach – at those milongas where I'm older than just about everyone, my cabeceos might as well be aimed at the coatrack.

Aesthetics. Part of the reason why people who are younger, fitter, and closer to their lessons won't invite you as often is that you don't look like somebody they want to dance with and/or be seen dancing with. It's easy to dismiss "I'll dance sexy or not at all!" as shallow, but hey, cabeceo/mirada is by definition about looking at someone. If you're starting to sag, wrinkle, and gray, and have to wear clothing and especially shoes designed to offer extra support to an aging body, you're going to be looked at less often. Where I disagree is with suggestions that this is something that happens to women but not men. It's possible that my "Silver Fox" card was lost in the mail, but I think part of why my cabeceos go straight to coatrack is that I'm not one of the younger, more vigorous guys who get 95% of the tandas with the more advanced followers.

Athleticism. The other part of why people who are younger, fitter, and closer to their lessons won't invite you as often is that age bring a certain inevitable loss of balance, flexibility, speed, strength, etc. It's less fun to dance with you because you can do less. Of course we can work out, eat well, take vitamins, see a physiotherapist, and otherwise do our best to retain our capabilities . . . but we can't undo the majority of the cellular and molecular damage that occurs over time. Tango itself can damage parts of you this way; too much tango can actually make you less able to dance tango.

Energy. A key attribute that declines with age is endurance, stamina, energy. Even if you can keep it high for the duration of one evening, you can't go to as many milongas in a week and probably can't stay as late as you'd like. Lately, with long COVID and the strain of having to move house (another story, but blame my landlord), I'm unable to "cheat" by taking naps and conserving energy throughout the day to function as well for as long at 55 as I did at 25 or 35 or even 45. It'll probably be worse at 65 and 75. And if you aren't at the milonga, or present for the final hour when the music gets cooler and there's more space to dance to it, you aren't visible to those who might dance with you, which feeds back into the not getting invited as often.

Expense. This varies a lot with where you live, but in many places – my area included – retired people are often living on fixed incomes. Sure, some salted away a lifetime of savings, got lucky in the market, and are living their best lives. The majority are not; they're dealing with having less than ever. When you have less money, you can afford fewer events, lessons, pairs of shoes, and all the rest. Tango can price itself out of the market, and even if it doesn't, the lack of money feeds back into getting more distant from lessons, dressing less well and looking less interesting, and going out and being seen less often. As a person who came from no money, had modest jobs, lost his investments in a divorce, etc., this is a serious fear for me. I think I'm more likely to be unable to afford tango than unable to dance tango.

There are people who are truly age sensitive always choosing their friends around their own age BUT surprisingly many are open for a contact over a decade or two if it is fun.

Tango is continuously evolving and if I don't update my dance my steps/tech will feel old fashioned/strange for a young, new dancer. Some years ago I had a shocking experience about that when a leader turned up with steps from 2004, my start year. It looked so odd and it was the main reason I started to update my dance 2019 at the most popular school in town.

Opendoors strategy to go to young teachers takes care of this aspect!