Growing Old in Tango

[JournalInTime]

Evil stares? Why

To be certain, ask them. My best guesses:

"That isn't how tango is supposed to look!" ​

"That's far too close to be appropriate, even for tango!" ​

"He/she doesn't dance that way with meeee!" ​

"He/she must have an awful hand position to make her/him want to do that!" ​

Sometimes I will do that when the floor is very crowded and the neighbouring couple is too close.

Me, too.

 

[TTanguero]

I'd honestly be satisfied if I could feel the Argentine embrace for myself, and if a teacher can explain the rationale/technical aspects, I'd deem the money worth spending.

Let me know if you're visiting BsAs, and I can put you in touch with the teacher who did this for me!

 

[TTanguero]

Or is the Argentinian embrace akin to what I've heard about Turkish leaders and Russian followers having the best embraces/dances outside of BsAs — i.e. grains of truth, some exaggeration, some generalisation?

I always thought the Turkish leader/Russian follower thing was an absurd generalisation, but I have to say my experience of dancing with Russian followers very much lives up to the billing!

 

[JournalInTime]

By the way:

"That's far too close to be appropriate, even for tango!" ​

"He/she doesn't dance that way with meeee!" ​

These two are linked. The tanguera in question started tango at the same school as I did, at about the same time I did. We traversed the "hours in a dusty studio that smells like shoes" "that awkward moment when you accidentally touch someone inappropriately due to a stupid technical error," and "we're all sweaty from class and the milonga is in 5 minutes, so we're all changing in front of each other" stages at the same time. With people like that, I have zero prudishness, so if they want to dance unusually close even for tango, I'll do it with them . . . but not just anyone.

To quote my coach, "If you're afraid to get up close and personal, you've chosen the wrong dance."

To quote the owner of the studio where we learned, "We have 2 minutes to change for the next choreo. No time for privacy."

I'm not a stage-tango person, but I approach the interpersonal dynamics and inconvenient truths of tango from "backstage at the show" point of view with people I've, well, seen backstage at a show, either literally or effectively.

 

[opendoor]

..To quote the owner of the studio.. "We have 2 minutes to change.. No time for privacy."

Concerning "privacy". I was just in a restaurant with the director of "Adiós Buenos Aires" after the German premiere of his last film. After the premiere, German said, I'm always afraid that people will leave the screening of my films and that he was very happy that the cinema was so full this time. I later replied that the cinema actually emptied continuously during the presentation of his first tango film "Ultimo Applauso". Back then I thought that I would see the film alone in the cinema to the end. But besides me one woman remained seated in the last row. Unforgettable, that was in 2008, I got up and I danced with her to the end credits in front of the curtain in the empty cinema. German Kral: "still together?" Me: "the tango is impersonal." Never met her again.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Maybe in a small scene with one instructor, but even then the students can go online where they'll encounter some material that contradicts whatever their instructor was saying. And the original context was for visiting instructors where there's generally a lot of choice (and financial pressure to propose a workshop topic that will be popular.)

Well, maybe students do that. WE have lots of instructors here but beginners often take lessons from one person and stick with that person until they're ready to move on. Could be a few months, could be a few years. People who have been dancing for a while of course seek out other instructors and visiting dancers for workshops, and so on. When I began, I didn't even know enough to think about looking at YouTube videos. What I learned was what I got in class. It wasn't until the class ended after several months that I bothered to poke around for additional information and other instructors. But, as always, YMMV.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

I do think people could use more training in how to deal with crowded floors but what's viewed as "milonguero" style is considered too restrictive.

Matter of opinion I would think. I've never seen it as restrictive myself and it seems to have worked for generations of dancers in BA. I can't help but think that this is both the fault of escenario dancing and a cultural difference, where, up "north," there's a constant search for novelty. Tradition counts for far less here than it does in other parts of the world.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

But can't you also understand that there is enormous economic pressure and a lot of competition among dance teachers, at least in our cities. Every school needs a unique selling proposition.
You can't make money from social dancing and milinguerostyle. You don't need any lessons for this. Look at me, before my first tango lesson i danced at milongas for two years. And I got good feedback.

Of course, I understand that there is competition and economic pressure. I live in one of the most expensive cities in the world, how could I not? I don't know what you mean by "making money from social dancing". If you mean the host or organizer, you're wrong. People here do make money, maybe not a lot of money, but they make money. If they don't, they close the milonga. That has happened. As for milonguero style, just about every instructor here teaches that way, especially with beginners. They may diverge from that for advanced classes or workshops but nobody teaches "tango nuevo" although a lot of people dance it. I disagree with you strongly about not needing lessons for traditional AT. The fundamentals are key and most folks just never bother to learn them.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

I don't expect there to be a common opinion about an "Argentinian embrace". After a few years of self-optimization, it would also come too late for me. Here I got photographed in "full contact mode", and that embrace felt pretty good:

View attachment 5471

Interesting. Not my arm or hand position, however. The rest of it is nice.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

So was I right all along, in that beyond the physical, it is all about the feelings one puts into and tries to convey through the embrace? Or is the Argentinian embrace akin to what I've heard about Turkish leaders and Russian followers having the best embraces/dances outside of BsAs — i.e. grains of truth, some exaggeration, some generalisation? I can only say that in my experience, the vast majority of Russian women I've danced with have had lovely embraces;

Absolutely, it's about what you put into it. If you're not ready to commit at that moment, with that person, best not to dance that tanda. You find a lovely embrace from women from all over the world. It's not where they're from but how they've learned, plus their own personal attitude toward the dance. You may find a larger proportion of them in certain places though.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

It's never too late to embrace. There is a lot to like in this photo but an Argentine embrace isn't "full contact" - think more of the two partners both in an Argentine "man hug". It is disappearing even in Buenos Aires.

Hmmm. You sure about this? I could definitely do without the pseudo-man-hug. Are we talking about B.A. and "el centro"?

 

[pianistamediano]

If you're not ready to commit at that moment, with that person, best not to dance that tanda. You find a lovely embrace from women from all over the world. It's not where they're from but how they've learned, plus their own personal attitude toward the dance.

Very true! If a woman embraces me wholeheartedly in the first few seconds, I know that I'm very likely going to have a great time.

 

[opendoor]

…You find a lovely embrace from women from all over the world. It's not where they're from but how they've learned, plus their own personal attitude toward the dance..

Fully agree. Unlike Brummbaer, I also think that there are no differences in tango regarding the origin of dancers. Of course, you will still find dance schools in remote areas where the students dance atypically. But these dancers cannot pretend that they did not know that tango actually was different. You are not at the mercy of your teacher and your local tradition any more! We live in a multimedia connected world, every style is available in every part of the world.

Even i knew in 1976, when i started to be interested in tango, that was long before my premiere on the dance floor, and it was long before the internet, how the abrazzo should look like. There were pictures on the covers of not wanted records. There were occasional illustrations in magazines and on advertising pillars. There were documentaries on BsAs on TV, there were argentine students at university.

The development of the tango, then as now, is converging, not diverging. (except for English tango, but that's another story).

 

[Brummbaer]

Unlike @Brummbaer, I also think that there are no differences in tango regarding the origin of dancers.

On the contrary. Origin has minimal contribution; it's how, where, and who you learned with. There's a spectrum. Obviously if you accept that only those who dance in the 'one true way', or your way, actually dance AT, then there are no differences.

It's about communication of the dance style. We travel more nowadays and more information is readily available, if you look. Previously, for example, French, Polish, Finnish (and English and American) tangos, and styles, developed in their locality. Some continue. It's not a matter of 'pretending' that their tango wasn't different. It didn't matter in life. That's where you were and got on with it.

Maybe improved communication, travel and contact will cause a convergence in social AT, or maybe enclaves will persist as 'we don't dance like that here'.

 

[Bailango]

After Martin van Kesteren:

I finally got to read the blog in the original thread. I was shaking my head as I read some things. The author (Martin) didn’t mention if he had any previous history. He mentioned dancing on stone surface and a few other things.

My take has always been that you adjust your dancing, how you step, and how you turn to two things. First is the footwear you are wearing. Second is the surface that you are dancing on. The same turn or pivot on a sprung wood studio floor is very different on marble, concrete, asphalt, stone, uneven surface. In salsa I have know leaders who danced in sports sneakers. Is it doable? Yes. Is it advisable? No. For some of the feet movement, the sports sneakers and dress shoes are enemy of your knees. It is not worth destroying your knees for sake of vanity or athleticism, if you are overcompensating.

Pay attention to your body and any signs of pain early. Start taking preventative measures when you dance. Don’t let dancing aggravate it. Rather eliminate anything in dancing that can make things worse.

I have seen dancers in 30s and 40s aggravate their injuries by ignoring to take care early. Often times putting them off dance floor for 6-7 months. Due to running downhill once, I ended up putting strain on my knees that took 2 months to heel. I was in mid thirties then. Once while doing enrosque drills everything went fine. Then suddenly after 2 weeks I had a strange strain in upper right leg. I could not figure out why it should happen. For two weeks I hadn’t done anything. Then I remember the drill. When I tried to mimick it, I knew that was the culprit. It would only shoot up in a certain position and angle my feet hit something no matter how softly. Otherwise in normal walking or dancing I didn’t feel anything. I had almost full range of motion. The best way to describe it is imagine trying to kick a soccer ball with side of your foot like when you are making a pass, the pain would suddenly shoot up. For a few seconds it was excruciating. If a follower banged her feet slightly against my inside foot, exactly the same. It took almost a year to fully recover. During that time I had half a dozen occasions when a follower in salsa or tango hit my foot at wrong spot. Best way to describe it is brushed hard. Not kick me or bang my foot.

Athleticism has come easy to me and I have naturally high endurance. Luckily I have been injury free through the sports and dancing. Have seen a lot of people develop injuries in both activities. People try to power through their pain and instead of letting the body heal, end up making it permanent or more serious.

Then there are age related ailments that start to creep in. One more reason to listen to your body and adjust your dancing style without giving up enjoyment you get.