Really? No códigos? That's when the clubs imposed them! Cortes y quebradas were sometimes banned!
Yes, Petróleo claimed to have invented many figures. We're richer for them.
Guardia Vieja, Tango Milonguero, and Tango Salon as styles of music
- Thread starter Bailango
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Yes, Petróleo claimed to have invented many figures. We're richer for them.
opendoor
Forum Master
You know that I wanted to point out that the so-called tango codes are inventions of this century. Of course, there were oral precursors, social norms, or their absence. But there was no continuity from then until now.
Most are from the 20th century, although some conventions (etiquette) probably go back earlier. IIRC quebradas y cortes were, let's say 'discouraged' (i.e. códigos) early in the 20th century
'Written' (as in notices posted in clubs) may have existed last century, but the posted evidence is from this century. Of course there are many pages of internet blogs (this century) promoting the author's viewpoint on important etiquette and hints for foreign visitors. Interesting that the 'códigos', or former norms (such as they existed) on seating, entry to the ronda, floorcraft, dress, clearing the dancefloor, dancing during cortina, etc are ignored but sometimes insistance on another culture's old method of invitation!
Códigos don't really have continuity (except those who wish to perpetuate cabeceo/mirada). They evolve with time and changes in society. There's been a flow, if not continuity.
I once visited a pub (last century!) with sawdust on the floor, spitoons by the bar, and a written 'código' of 'no knives'. Thankfully we've moved on.
opendoor
Forum Master
We basically agree on the historical aspects. However, I am deeply concerned about the conservative regression on the dance floor. That's why I want to warn and clarify that what is being spread today as traditional and authentic was constructed 20 years ago. Who else is going to tell newcomers that what the dance teachers and influencers preach is untrue?
Erm, no
We're in the 21st century, and most are an evolution of something much earlier adjusted for the locale's culture.
Mostly they've evolved - like dress codes (although performers usually pay lip-service to those). 'Books' (in any format), or seminars on musicality, looking at the thread topic, seem to be telling something more than basic aide memoire about how to dance to the music. But don't ignore those aide memoire, whether it's fundamental counting beats and phrasing, comparing to 'elements' or other descrptive terms, or eras, or other descriptions. They're a starter. 'Free expression' may give personal 'assistance', but it's not AT. It's like tagging on 'zen', or 'wellness', or 'yoga'. In times of uncertainty (as now) people cling to their nostalgic take. It's nicer to play some retro game than look at the real world (no more politics of any variety on this!)
Well, I guess the authors and seminar leaders for those who look. Where's your vlog, or book, or lecture course?
opendoor
Forum Master
Also: Erm, No!
opendoor
Forum Master
Agreed
pianistamediano
Forum Master
But it's fun to write controversial statements that set each of you at each others' throats while I sit back and read the thread!
Should we say there is no such thing as AT and every person has their own version of AT?
opendoor
Forum Master
My agenda is at least to challenge the Argentinians' supposed supremacy in interpreting the past. We Europeans revived tango twice. Argentines are, of course, welcome to make money from it. But we hold the power of interpretation. And we'll bury the internal differences between myself and Brummbaer this summer in a sunny spot with some beautiful tango music in the background.
brujo
Well-Known Member
It’s called Argentinian to distinguish it from the more superior ballroom tango, obviously. Just like you call it Dominican bachata because it is the older inferior version of real/sensual bachata.Should we say there is no such thing as AT and every person has their own version of AT?
Ballroom Tango is superior?
opendoor
Forum Master
Sorry brujo, ballroom tango is English tango. French tango already died out. And english tango is a version of Argentine tango frozen in the 1920s. I've posted a lot here about the history of international standard (aka english) tango. But that was 20 years ago and I no longer have the links to those threads handy.
Sorry its the other way round. Sensual bachata is closer to the origins of bachata than that newfangled so-called dominican bachata. Please compare my post in the salsa section. Bolero is the ancestor of either bachata and Argentine milonga. But Luis Segura once strayed from these roots when he invented the upbeat version that is now called bachata dominicana. And above all, don't believe Bailango, who will surely reply to my post
brujo
Well-Known Member
No bro. You’re wrong. Maybe in Europe where you claim things are International but it only applies to your tiny little continent. In God loving America the Freedom Fries eating crowd dance American Smooth Tango in our ballrooms thanks to incredible teachers like Arthur Murray and Fred Astaire.
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