Has anyone ever achieved gold status on most of the 10 styles in 1 year?

What are you trying to accomplish? Are you trying to "know" all the steps so you can be an accomplished social dancer? Are you wanting to become a dance professional? Are you trying to become an amateur competitor? A pro competitor? One of the best in the world?

I'm confused because your posts speak as if you'd like to become a top pro competitor yet you speak of your knowledge and ability like someone who doesn't yet compehend how much it would take to become one.

I have been taking lessons with my pro for 4 years. I dance about 10-12 hours a week, most of that in private lessons. I do 2 styles and started a third. My first year I just thought how fun it was. I am no where near the top of an open pro-am group even though I have had significant success in closed levels. I have probably above average talent and I work my butt off.

But this kind of dance is HARD. If you think it's not- if you think after a few months of group classes and maybe a private a week you are anywhere near proficient at anything- well, you need to take some private lessons with a pro who makes you realize it'll take you years just to master a rumba basic with any sort of technical proficiency.

I don't want to rain on your parade, but the goals youve implied and your understanding of what it will take to achieve those goals are grossly out of alignment.
 
Larinda McRaven said:
I dunno. I am sort of impressed with what he is saying so far. I see people here on DF and out ITRW that have been dancing >15 years and STILL can't remember the name of their patterns. Why not withhold the judgment, instead offer encouragement and be happy for someone with that much drive and attention. Help them achieve instead of offering up resistance. If he makes it, great. If he doesn't, well then, he is no worse off than most everyone else on this forum who at one time, in the beginning, was enamored with all of it and thought they would like to be a "pro".


I remember a psychologist that Stephen and I went to for a while when we were at the height of our competing career. He was pretty much a jerk and couldn't understand why we were doing ANYTHING that we were doing. Couldn't fathom why we spent the money we did, practiced and fought as much as we did, or traveled to compete do shows or take coaching. He was one big negative nelly the entire time. I shut him up with one simple sentence. "If everyone thought the way you do Man would never have gone to the moon."
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I agree Larinda....but I do also think that what ends up crushing many folks is when they set out to do something and have an inappropriate level of appreciation of the measure of the task at hand...I personally admire OP's gumption....and I certainly remember having a more than healthy dose of it myself..... and he will have to deal with those issues as they come...just like the rest of us... no amount of advisories are going to rain on his parade ....maybe we all have to have that sort of spirit at the outset of anything to achieve an above average amount of progress in a shorter than average time frame...no one likes a joy squasher or a dream crusher....that being said, I think most of the folks here issuing caution are probably, like myself, well intended...as I have seen many folks who have had those sorts of expectations eventually become disheartened...it all depends upon how much one loves something I suppose, and which part of it all they love, and how badly they want to persist
 
With any skill, I believe it is possible to make a lot of progress, at the beginning with adequate time, energy and attention. So for dancing, learning the patterns and vocabulary can come quickly with enough motivation. For me, I learned the latin syllabus through gold in a few months by supplementing my lessons with watching lots of videos and running though patterns on my own multiple times a day. But proficiency in a physical skill is dependent on age, body type, injuries, and a myriad of other factors. Then, there is probably a critical period for acquiring dance technique just as there is for being able to speak a language without an accent. In order to get the technique into the muscle memory, there are no shortcuts and it takes many years. Like building up callouses, building strength, flexibility and skill takes pacing and time. Go too fast, and you risk injury. I was on a fast track to open because with my dance background the open steps are actually easier for me than the latin technique, which is a daily, life long battle. But, I know full well that I will never be an expert and probably not even competitive because I started latin too late in life. And we have not even mentioned the critical importance of partnering and connection. At the higher levels, it is not so much an individual effort, as it is a two person energy system. That blew my mind. And then, as one gets higher and higher up the ladder to proficiency, the differences between one expert and another are harder for the general public to decipher. Dancing IS hard. It takes grit, determination, communication/problem solving with a partner, ability to withstand pain and discomfort, tenacity, discipline and most importantly being able to tolerate the knowledge that there are no guarantees of anything, really. It's hard, but we do it anyway.
 
rels77 said:
What are you trying to accomplish? Are you trying to "know" all the steps so you can be an accomplished social dancer? Are you wanting to become a dance professional? Are you trying to become an amateur competitor? A pro competitor? One of the best in the world?

I'm confused because your posts speak as if you'd like to become a top pro competitor yet you speak of your knowledge and ability like someone who doesn't yet comprehend how much it would take to become one.
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Accopmlish: Be one of the best in the world or at least be able to dance in the same competitions as them. The winning 1st place is not so much of a focus because if I focus on the dance itself, then the coming 1st is a byproduct of the thousands of hours of hard work. It's where I want to head no matter what it takes I dance for about 15 hours a week sometimes more with a mixture of group and private... . Syllabus (I am UK based) is all measured Bronze, Silver, Gold... I want to know as much as possible so that open is easier to do and be a better dancer, move better and understand the technical/science side of what I do also.

I guess right now, I am on the way to pro but I am under no illusion that it may take years. Hence why in earlier posts I have said that I don't wish to belittle the immense amount of hours and work it takes to be proficient in all styles.. (I would also love to do lindy and others outside of this). I just have champion mindset that has come from competing in martial arts and sport in general since very young.
 
Larinda McRaven said:
I remember a psychologist that Stephen and I went to for a while when we were at the height of our competing career. He was pretty much a jerk and couldn't understand why we were doing ANYTHING that we were doing. Couldn't fathom why we spent the money we did, practiced and fought as much as we did, or traveled to compete do shows or take coaching. He was one big negative nelly the entire time. I shut him up with one simple sentence. "If everyone thought the way you do Man would never have gone to the moon."
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Larinda... firstly thanks for your post.
I am curious as to why you went to see a psychologist.... (unsure of which year you were competing in) what did you want to change/improve in your mind?

I remember back when I was depressed when I was 16 as my gf at the time I had just discovered..... was pregnant with her exs baby. When I was at my lowest in that whole scenario a million revelations flooded in. One was that of being able to edit your own mind to do whatever you wanted to do. The underlying principle of either do something or do not do it (Binary) was the underlying basis. I also eliminated concepts that humans made up like confidence, self esteem, nervousness and never felt a lack or cause of them ever again. Choosing to do something or not do it based on if it is worth doing was introduced instead. Can or can't do something was replaced with "repeat correctly as many times as is necessary to become second nature".

Whilst someone missing a leg from a war injury may be less able to dance, for those that are perfectly healthy, there are no barriers that could possibly exist other than oneself. What do you think about that?
 
fascination said:
maybe we all have to have that sort of spirit at the outset of anything to achieve an above average amount of progress in a shorter than average time frame...no one likes a joy squasher or a dream crusher....that being said, I think most of the folks here issuing caution are probably, like myself, well intended...as I have seen many folks who have had those sorts of expectations eventually become disheartened...it all depends upon how much one loves something I suppose, and which part of it all they love, and how badly they want to persist
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I remember back when i was really young and someone would insult me verbally. I believe that if you know who you are yourself, nothing verbal can change what you already know.. especially if incorrect.

However, when ego is removed, and analysis takes place, if there is something not as good as could be eg. too forceful in manner when speaking with people (which sometimes I had and being a little larger in build than normal... I had to tone down), or any other character traits that could be nicer to get along with a majority of people.... then one should be open to making adjustments.

With dance, if someone tells me something that is not as good as could be or bad, I will either ask them what I am doing wrong so as to have the solution to correct, eg with hold and poise... and just correct something. If someone wants something bad enough, then I don't think that they should ever be disheartened, only determined to correct the cause of what may lead to feeling bad about something.
 
How I measure progress: (BALLROOM) I have checklists to measure what is now second nature as a figure to do. I keep it on my phone and check off what I do as and when. Same for Latin. I am constantly refering to this to look up youtube videos by Ballroomguide, AndyWong or EgilsSmagris

BALLROOM SYLLABUS

Waltz

PRE-BRONZE
  1. Closed Changes ✔️
  2. Natural Turn✔️
  3. Reverse Turn✔️
  4. Natural Spin Turn✔️
  5. Whisk✔️
  6. Chasse from PP✔️
BRONZE
  1. Closed Impetus ✔️
  2. Hesitation Change ✔️
  3. Outside Change ✔️
  4. Reverse Corte
  5. Back Whisk
  6. Basic Weave ✔️
  7. Double Reverse Spin ✔️
  8. Reverse Pivot ✔️
  9. Back Lock ✔️
  10. Progressive Chasse to R ✔️
SILVER
  1. Weave from PP
  2. Closed Telemark
  3. Open Telemark and Cross Hesitation
  4. Open Telemark and Wing
  5. Open Impetus and Cross Hesitation
  6. Open Impetus and Wing
  7. Outside Spin
  8. Turning Lock
  9. Drag Hesitation
GOLD
  1. Left Whisk
  2. Contra Check
  3. Closed Wing ✔️
  4. Turning Lock to R
  5. Fallaway Reverse and Slip Pivot
  6. Hover Corte
  7. Fallaway Whisk

Quickstep

PRE-BRONZE
  1. Quarter Turn to R ✔️
  2. Natural Turn✔️
  3. Natural Turn with Hesitation ✔️
  4. Natural Pivot Turn
  5. Natural Spin Turn ✔️
  6. Progressive Chasse ✔️
  7. Chasse Reverse Turn
  8. Forward Lock✔️
  9. Quarter Turn to Left (Heel Pivot)
BRONZE
  1. Closed Impetus
  2. Backward Lock ✔️
  3. Reverse Pivot
  4. Progressive Chasse to R✔️
  5. Tipple Chasse to R✔️
  6. Running Finish
  7. Natural Turn and Back Lock✔️
  8. Double Reverse Spin✔️
  9. Zig Zag, Back Lock, Running Finish
  10. Cross Chasse✔️
  11. Change of Direction
SILVER
  1. Quick Open Reverse
  2. Fishtail
  3. Running Right Turn✔️
  4. Four Quick Run
  5. V6
  6. Closed Telemark
GOLD
  1. Cross Swivel
  2. Six Quick Run✔️
  3. Rumba Cross
  4. Tipsy to Right and Left
  5. Hover Corte

Tango

PRE-BRONZE
  1. Walk ✔️
  2. Progressive Side Step ✔️
  3. Progressive Link ✔️
  4. Closed Promenade ✔️
  5. Natural Rock Turn ✔️
  6. Open Reverse Turn, Lady Outside ✔️
  7. Back Corte
BRONZE
  1. Open Reverse Turn, Lady in Line
  2. Progressive Side Step Reverse Turn QQS, SS, QQS, QQS
  3. Open Promenade
  4. LF and RF Rocks✔️
  5. Natural Twist Turn
  6. Natural Promenade Turn
SILVER
  1. Promenade Link
  2. Four Step
  3. Back Open Promenade
  4. Outside Swivels
  5. Fallaway Promenade
  6. Four Step Change
  7. Brush Tap
GOLD
  1. Fallaway Four Step
  2. Oversway
  3. Basic Reverse Turn
  4. The Chase
  5. Fallaway Reverse and Slip Pivot
  6. Five Step
  7. Contra Check
Foxtrot

PRE-BRONZE
  1. Feather ✔️
  2. Three Step✔️
  3. Natural Turn✔️
  4. Reverse Turn with Feather Finish✔️
  5. Closed Impetus with Feather Finish
BRONZE
  1. Natural Weave✔️
  2. Change of Direction✔️
  3. Basic Weave✔️
SILVER
  1. Closed Telemark
  2. Open Telemark and Feather Ending
  3. Top Spin
  4. Hover Feather
  5. Hover Telemark (and to PP)
  6. Natural Telemark
  7. Hover Cross
  8. Open Telemark, Natural Turn, Outside Swivel, Feather Ending
  9. Open Impetus
  10. Weave from PP
  11. Reverse Wave✔️
  12. Natural Weave from PP
GOLD
  1. Natural Twist Turn
  2. Curved Feather to Back Feather
  3. Natural Zig Zag from PP
  4. Fallaway Reverse and Slip Pivot
  5. Natural Hover Telemark
  6. Bounce Fallaway with Weave Ending

Viennese Waltz
  • BRONZE
    1. Natural Turn ✔️
    2. Reverse Turn ✔️
    3. Closed Changes Forward
    4. Closed Changes Backward
  • SILVER
    1. Reverse Fleckerl
  • GOLD
    1. Natural Fleckerl
    2. Contra Check
 
As you progress beyond bronze into the silver and gold figures, revisit your bronze figures as you master new techniques so you can refine the bronze figures. At one time I watched a video (maybe on YouTube) of a championship couple doing only bronze, but their bronze was so much more than our bronze.
 
Indeed. For example, I can pretty much guarantee that you are *always* going to have room for refinement in your feathers and three steps. Or in latin, you will be working on your rumba walks pretty much forever. Which is not, I want to be very clear, a statement about you. That's true for everyone. It's pretty much impossible to spend too much time working on one's fundamentals.
 
Woohooo! I'm having a Pure Class Sleeveless Jacket made to measure! It's a shame you can't get good dance wear for anything less than £250. This is how serious I am about having everything ready and the right attire and feel for what I will achieve.
pureclass_PCBJ-0002-2000x2000.jpg
 
snapdancer - I shall do. I always like to start off routines with the basic steps and then add the rest on after when I practise. Just as in Football (soccer) basics are what you win with. I think this is correct with dance too from everything I've seen and been told by my instructor.

JudeMorrigan said:
Indeed. For example, I can pretty much guarantee that you are *always* going to have room for refinement in your feathers and three steps. Or in latin, you will be working on your rumba walks pretty much forever. Which is not, I want to be very clear, a statement about you. That's true for everyone. It's pretty much impossible to spend too much time working on one's fundamentals.
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It's amazing how just looking at the feather step in Foxtrot, from learning the figure, there is so much to do with shaping etc. I think it's so cool how someone can do a feather an it look just like an intro but others can dress up a feather and make it look so elegant and add so much detail to it with the lady... :D Alexandra Hixson and Andrey Sirbu in an ISTD conference performed and showed us a small routine comprising of an extended feather, followed by two reverse turns into a pivot turn and then natural wing type turn into promenade and an oversway followed by a ronde chasse and their movement was fantastic! Such a short basic routine but looks amazing!
 
Now I'm excited about having decent dance wear. I have a strange figure as I am 42" up top and 31" waist with 31.5" hips so athletic cut isn't very normal for suits or waistcoats so to do this properly I have no choice but to invest. At least the material is stretchy for the jacket....

I always feel better when dancing in competition gear rather than civies. Same with the way that you would train in martial arts in what you would wear to a competition/tournament/fight so that it doesn't feel strange. Normal is an entirely subjective concept to each person.

From the site:
"The best 4 way stretch fabric is without doubt what we at Pure Class recommend. It allows Mark Plant our master tailor to fit and cut the suit to the dancers body but at the same time giving the dancer comfort. In appearance the fabric looks a traditional very black wool with the advantage of being light weight and full stretch.

We no longer have to use pads in the shoulders as the fabric can be stretched across the shoulder canvas. This gives a natural shoulder line and the collar can then be set lower giving the dancer a long neck and visible white collar.

The back fit again because of the cloth stretches from the middle of the back to the elbow when in dance hold , taking away the fabric drape that is visible in a none stretch fabric.

We no longer use sleeve linings as this cloth can be fitted as close as the dancer requires to the arm but it is important that the stretch of the fabric is not used around the arm as this will result in the sleeves looking too tight and will detract from the coaches requirements and giving what is formally known as the 'condom sleeve' a look that no one wants!

A lot of time and thought has gone into developing this fabric and although its our most expensive suit there are no compromises in what the cloth can do.
A tradition comfort look can be achieved by using a non-stretch wool with padded shoulders and a wider sleeve with fabric drape however if you still require this look it would still be better to use the 4 way stretch fabric with all its modern day elements and leave the style of the cut to our tailors to achieve your desired preferred profile."
 
While we're sharing - I see a sports psychologist sometimes to help me cope with my overachiever tendencies and manage my OCD* in the world of high-performance training and competition... but the reason I started - and continue with regular check-ins - is to help me deal with all the politics/drama (primarily at the studio) which got so bad for a while that I nearly walked away from the sport completely.

(*Note: not using OCD as an expression here.)
 
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