Has Buenos Aires lost its tango soul?

[itwillhappen]

For these cities, let's call them 'second tier' for the sake of clarity...is it only recommended to go to such places when there is a particular event on? I'm happy to hear about any lesser-known tango hotspots, particularly in europe

At any event - wherever it takes place - you have to expect that many participants are investing their time and money to achieve an above-average level of dancing. For you as an intermediate leader, this can get quite stressful, unless you're at a festival with an excess of followers.

I would consider an organized tango holiday that includes lessons and a few milongas. And generally, when traveling, visit the local milongas; whether big or small, any of them might turn out to be a rewarding experience ... or not.

 

[pianistamediano]

I used to be opposed to the idea of cliques anywhere, but I've learned a lot more about human nature and all I can say is that they exist simply because we can't be friendly and maintain meaningful, significant friendships with that many people, and it's only human to prefer being around people whom you like, who are like-minded, et cetera.

When I was still in London/Europe, I was one of the (few?) dancers who moved between and interacted with multiple cliques at all the milongas, as @TTanguero or @Rabbit can attest. It's true that I do tend to spend more time with some people, because I enjoy dancing with them and/or enjoy their company, so from some perspectives people might think I'm part of a clique too, but I've always just focused on all my friends, not one particular clique.

And it's not like people never go out of their cliques — ignoring all the exceptions/ulterior motives like some hotshot leader, some young attractive follower, professionals, all of which I definitely don't count as — I've still had people go out of their cliques and reach out to me even at highly selective and clique-ish events, even to the point of excitedly dragging me out onto the dance floor within moments of introducing themselves.

 

[opendoor]

Nice to hear from you, pianistamediano !

 

[Rabbit]

And it's not like people never go out of their cliques — ignoring all the exceptions/ulterior motives like some hotshot leader, some young attractive follower, professionals, all of which I definitely don't count as — I've still had people go out of their cliques and reach out to me even at highly selective and clique-ish events, even to the point of excitedly dragging me out onto the dance floor within moments of introducing themselves.

You're a better dancer than you think you are

 

[brujo]

I used to be opposed to the idea of cliques anywhere, but I've learned a lot more about human nature and all I can say is that they exist simply because we can't be friendly and maintain meaningful, significant friendships with that many people, and it's only human to prefer being around people whom you like, who are like-minded, et cetera.

The structure of tango makes it pretty horrible.

I recently started learning zouk which also has some of the characteristics of tandas in that people start dancing for a few songs that meld into each other. But in that community they explicitly go out of the way to make the first hour beginner and community friendly. They play one song with a strict beginning and end and encourage everyone to dance with everyone else for that hour. They also meet at some food carts before the dance.

In tango, it feels like your dance card fills up super quick the moment you get to a milonga. If you have one tanda with two or three friends from class or that you’ve invited, a couple more with friends of other dance communities you are part of, and maybe one or two with strangers or beginners, your night is pretty much done. Even if you wanted to be friendly the structure of the night won’t let you. In other dances even if you sit out 70% of the night you end up dancing with more people than in tango.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

I used to be opposed to the idea of cliques anywhere, but I've learned a lot more about human nature and all I can say is that they exist simply because we can't be friendly and maintain meaningful, significant friendships with that many people, and it's only human to prefer being around people whom you like, who are like-minded, et cetera.

Yes, but that is not a clique. A clique is an arbitrarily exclusive group. Members of a clique dance among themselves no matter where they go. They have no interest in those outside the clique. Everyone is selective to a certain extent, we tend to favor certain dance partners and not others. But that doesn't mean we are part of a clique.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

In tango, it feels like your dance card fills up super quick the moment you get to a milonga. If you have one tanda with two or three friends from class or that you’ve invited, a couple more with friends of other dance communities you are part of, and maybe one or two with strangers or beginners, your night is pretty much done. Even if you wanted to be friendly the structure of the night won’t let you. In other dances even if you sit out 70% of the night you end up dancing with more people than in tango.

I can't speak to other dances, but tango is emotionally intensive, a few very good tandas (like two or three) can mean a lot. Also, I think the more maturity you have in tango, the less you need to dance. I also understand that dancing with friends and familiars can quickly take you through several tandas, depending on your sociability. And at that point, you may not have energy for anyone else.

 

[brujo]

I can't speak to other dances, but tango is emotionally intensive, a few very good tandas (like two or three) can mean a lot. Also, I think the more maturity you have in tango, the less you need to dance.

I have a weird point of comparison. Four minute blues and fusion dances with some of the same people I tango with. Honestly, the duration is not as intense and important that a lot of tango dancers elevate to a pedestal. I’ve also gotten that kind of connection in shorter alt tango sets.

 

[itwillhappen]

Even if you wanted to be friendly the structure of the night won’t let you.

But you are friendly - towards a different group of people.
And there is no mandatory "structure of the night"; tandas are merely a modern invention.
Any organizer could set up a "happy hour" like that. The question is whether it appeals to the participants; if it does, it will quickly catch on.

 

[opendoor]

..a few very good tandas (like two or three) can mean a lot. Also, I think the more maturity you have in tango, the less you need to dance...

You're speaking my mind. Because I have a disability, my limit is 5 tandas (without vals) and 4 with a vals tanda. I've totally given up milonga or salsa because they're so hard on my knees. Vals also is destructive, but I just can't do without it.

..I have a weird point of comparison. Four minute blues and fusion dances with some of the same people I tango with... I’ve also gotten that kind of connection in shorter alt tango sets.

I also agree with you. The rhythm doesn't matter if the music speaks to you. Many here say that only that tango embrace creates connection, immersion, and transcendence. For me, it's different: as soon as good! music starts playing (and I'm discerning, the style doesn't matter), I can open up and merge with my dance partner.

 

[pianistamediano]

You're a better dancer than you think you are

Coming from you, that means a lot. Hope to see you again when I go back later this year!

 

[pianistamediano]

Yes, but that is not a clique. A clique is an arbitrarily exclusive group. Members of a clique dance among themselves no matter where they go. They have no interest in those outside the clique. Everyone is selective to a certain extent, we tend to favor certain dance partners and not others. But that doesn't mean we are part of a clique.

Then I'd say that there are actually very few existing cliques, if we go by that definition? (Forgive me for spitballing here) Even if we establish some arbitrary threshold as a (approximate, not exact) standard like, say, at least one dancer in the clique dances with at least one external dancer once every few (5? 6? 10?) milongas, I struggle to think of any cliques I've regularly noticed at local milongas or events that meet a threshold lile that. Do you have any examples from your own experience?

 

[pianistamediano]

The structure of tango makes it pretty horrible.

I recently started learning zouk which also has some of the characteristics of tandas in that people start dancing for a few songs that meld into each other. But in that community they explicitly go out of the way to make the first hour beginner and community friendly. They play one song with a strict beginning and end and encourage everyone to dance with everyone else for that hour. They also meet at some food carts before the dance.

In tango, it feels like your dance card fills up super quick the moment you get to a milonga. If you have one tanda with two or three friends from class or that you’ve invited, a couple more with friends of other dance communities you are part of, and maybe one or two with strangers or beginners, your night is pretty much done. Even if you wanted to be friendly the structure of the night won’t let you. In other dances even if you sit out 70% of the night you end up dancing with more people than in tango.

Yes, I've experienced the same thing in swing socials too. That's why I think it's important to establish some sort of support system for beginners in some way, whether formal (teacher organising regular visits as a group to a local milonga or two), or informal (finding people to go to the milonga together) so that beginners feel less left out. In essence, buying into the current system as you described, having a dance card that's already partially filled, and letting the night decide if that dance card will be even fuller.

That's also why I do like weekend matinee milongas so much, and recommend them to beginners, simply because of the far more relaxed and easygoing atmosphere, which helps to ease them into the existing community with a minimum of anxiety and stress.

 

[Bailango]

Aside from the negative connotation, I see no practical difference between a "clique" and a "peer group".

To me that’s off the mark. Clique usually carries negative connotations. Cliques acts in an exclusionary way (and more specifically in social dance settings, it does so publicly).

Cliqueness runs on the same rails as nepotism, legacy admissions (a USA elite university thing), cronyism, etc. A rung below “old boys network). All these also ignore merit, level playing field, unspoken rules that the affinity group accepts, greater good, etc.

Peer group is more lose form and generally doesn’t exhibit some of the negative traits associated with Cliqueness.

 

[Bailango]

I suggest just going to some city you want to visit anyway and not having any expectations of the milongas.

OP I think wanted to visit cities specifically for milongas. Very similar to people going to BsAs for tango primarily and everything else is secondary. What you are suggesting is opposite.

I can’t remember visiting any cities for tango. But whenever I have traveled I try to checkout tango dancing.