Yup... is Raul Julia starring in Tango Bar.
Having problems with my wife dancing with other men
- Thread starter Improvisedsteps
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opendoor
Forum Master
I want to vehemently contradict you (I'm way older than you are and also started salsa first). It's not the dance and the moves that have changed, but their projection into the world are different, now.
Everything already was there when you started dancing salsa. But because you learned in a double-sterilized aquarium (a protected space), these elements were withheld from you. You haven't learned salsa, but a purified artificial construct.
Please do not blame the dance and the dancers, but rather those who locked you up for years and told you fairy tales about reality.
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Tango Newbie
Well-Known Member
Actually, she definitely DID (enjoy close embrace dancing with other dancers) BEFORE I came into the picture. And yes, it will be at least a year.
Like I've said in previous posts, I've been dancing for over 6 months and taking int/adv classes already. I also mentioned I've danced in the close embrace with by GF, but it was not as long, nor was it as enjoyable as it was with a fellow student in another studio where CE is primarily taught.
My GF has been hesitant and a bit overly cautious, keeping dancing in the CE it to brief periods when we've danced (in practicas and in class), whereas I dance in the CE at the other studio with the other student for almost the entire class.
Still, I get your point.
Generalising for straight folks to minimise typing, men don't head out to tango or salsa in order to exclusively dance close embrace with other men (as they would with basketball or wrestling) -- otherwise some wives/girlfriends would not find it objectionable! (Applies correspondingly for gay partners, women, etc.) And that is precisely my point.
Btw, I'm here to attempt civil, intelligent discourse.
TTanguero
Forum Master
I know that feels like a lot, but it's not without reason that they say everyone's a beginner for the first two years* – and it's not about the level of the classes you take.
*I believe Gavito said 20 years
Thank you for your honesty. (I've seen many disingenuous answers here, and heard many others.)
itwillhappen
Forum Master
From my experience I can confirm all of this.
At every milonga I feel individual women who want to dance through the tanda in the flow of a pleasant close embrace. Maybe they even get what they miss during sex, that question is out of the question. For me it is sometimes also pleasant, but it seems by no means to be as easy, likely due to the leader role.
And sometimes also a follower is surprised by her emotional and physical reactions to a close embrace. I remember that well - what a shame that one can only once be a beginner!
opendoor
Forum Master
-Please do not do your research only on the Internet.
-Please do not judge or moralize when reporting on forms of human sexuality, especially not when they are consensual.
-The people you mentioned are a minority, mostly they are untalented dancers, if they are dancers at all, and they usually exaggerate.
I'm unclear how you find answers from other participants which don't support your thesis as 'disingenuous'. You think maybe, after years of participation in AT in many cases, somehow we're naively unaware or hiding something?
If participating in dance, and everything associated, wasn't pleasurable in some form, would anyone do it?
You could go into the whole philosophy of touch and the need to socialize beyond basic needs, but your only concern seems to be some form of sexual pleasure as distinct from any normal sensual reaction. Indeed your other example merely seems that some dance event is a cover for something more. It happens with other events as well and well beyond the scope here.
But still returning to your original post: What's the question that's troubling you?
That's true in a very general sort of way, but only if you squint really hard.
For many of us, part of the initial attraction to dance was the perception that it is indeed sexually charged. But we quickly find out that it actually isn't (or not the way we thought--more on that later), and the people who stick with dancing long term are the ones that fell in love with the dance itself. People in it for the sex get bored when they don't find much of it.
In other words: we came for the sex, but stay for the dance.
That's not to say there is no possibility of sexual charge in AT. Nobody has claimed that, that I've seen. But that is only because sexual charge can be attached to basically anything, even mundane activities like making conversation or eye contact.
The inherent sexuality of close embrace is the same as for those other things...which is why we attribute discomfort with a spouse/SO dancing to simple jealousy. To dancers, it makes as much sense to be uncomfortable with close embrace as it does to being uncomfortable with making conversation. Both can be sexually charged, but that charge comes form the participants' mindset, not the activity itself.
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TL;DR example, that I imagine many straight men here would agree with.
I may not have started dancing if other men were the only possible partners.
But today, I would happily go dance exclusively with other men, regardless of orientation. It's just that men don't often learn to follow, and I don't know how either.
More generally: sex sells. It's a motivator. Certainly didn't start dancing to dance alone. Suffering the TV ads at the moment, what's the motivator for some perfume - for either gender?
Doesn't work well for me
. I get rhinitis.Well, actually sometimes they do - even straight. If you look elsewhere at practicas and the like, and the history of AT in another society, you'll see that they did, and they still do, albeit nowadays rarely.
As I noted, young men would learn to dance together and have to be 'good enough' before the 'dancing master' would let them dance with a woman. This was a situation (I condense the details) in Argentina with more male than women immigrants, but also pre-dates that in certain strata of European society.
As you might read elsewhere, some of us would go to a practica (AT practice) without our [life] partner, even encouraged, because not available or want you to sort something out, uncertain who was there. There might be more men than women, or vice-versa nowadays. I'm not talking about a milonga for dancing, but a practica for practicing. And, of course, people have already mentioned lessons. We could also consider other dance activities like English Morris Dancing... with a good drink afterwards for 'male bonding'.
And, of course, we're ignoring that it's always been acceptable for women to dance, and even go out, together.
I can't say I'm into watching wrestling, basketball, or European equivalents. Not everyone is.
Yes, there's a different pleasure in dancing with a female for me, but so what?
Generally speaking the embrace is pleasant for a few distinct reasons
A) the connected movement is enjoyable - this is what the people making wrestling or other sports analogies are talking about
B) it's instinctively pleasant to embrace family or close friends - generally considered innocent
C) it's instinctively pleasant to embrace someone you find attractive - I suppose this is where the grey area is for most non-dancers
D) someone is deliberately trying to sexually arouse themselves or their partner - but this is simply harrassment if non-consensual as it would be in any other context
People committed to their relationship won't initiate or accept D, and tend to experience B more than C. Experienced dancers also generally feel less C and more A and B. Although I will say that for myself, C never really goes away completely, I also believe the people-married-for-30-years who say that it does for them.
A) the connected movement is enjoyable - this is what the people making wrestling or other sports analogies are talking about
B) it's instinctively pleasant to embrace family or close friends - generally considered innocent
C) it's instinctively pleasant to embrace someone you find attractive - I suppose this is where the grey area is for most non-dancers
D) someone is deliberately trying to sexually arouse themselves or their partner - but this is simply harrassment if non-consensual as it would be in any other context
People committed to their relationship won't initiate or accept D, and tend to experience B more than C. Experienced dancers also generally feel less C and more A and B. Although I will say that for myself, C never really goes away completely, I also believe the people-married-for-30-years who say that it does for them.
Well, the whole jealous partner trope is rather boring, but the discussion about what people feel in the embrace is interesting.