How does a dynamic dancer dance?

[opendoor]

..It's also why I avoid most milonga tandas too, I don't think I'm at a level where I can give followers a good milonga tanda just yet.

You are a model. Unfortunately, the majority simply dances bumper cars.

 

[Brummbaer]

In fact if the ronda is too packed/chaotic, I often sit out entirely since I don't think I'd be able to give the follower a good dance given the space + poor n

That can be wise, but maybe you're at the wrong milonga at this stage? Good ('advanced') dancers historically kept to the outer lane - because they could, and the audience got to see their talents for future invitation. Less good dancers were pushed to the inner lanes (and the aspiring hotshots to the middle out of the way). That doesn't always work well nowadays. Nowadays some rondas can be chaotic with poor floorcraft, changing lane, and people stepping back. Also some don't know how to dance in a small space, nor take advantage of space which opens up.

---

Not all milongas are the same, but you've also got to progress and learn (like driving on a motorway - but you don't start there). But sometimes you just don't want to join the motorway rush.

It's also why I avoid most milonga tandas too

Yeah, I used to do that. Then we got some basic, but limited, milonga steps in lessons, and I guess I got taught to lead milonga (by some good Argentinian and European teachers in various workshops). It worked - and we worked on elements of Lisa and Traspie. Still a work in progress (isn't it always?)! But it holds no fears now - just fun.

 

[tangoing]

That can be wise, but maybe you're at the wrong milonga at this stage? Good ('advanced') dancers historically kept to the outer lane - because they could, and the audience got to see their talents for future invitation. Less good dancers were pushed to the inner lanes (and the aspiring hotshots to the middle out of the way). That doesn't always work well nowadays. Nowadays some rondas can be chaotic with poor floorcraft, changing lane, and people stepping back. Also some don't know how to dance in a small space, nor take advantage of space which opens up.

---

Not all milongas are the same, but you've also got to progress and learn (like driving on a motorway - but you don't start there). But sometimes you just don't want to join the motorway rush.

Yeah, I used to do that. Then we got some basic, but limited, milonga steps in lessons, and I guess I got taught to lead milonga (by some good Argentinian and European teachers in various workshops). It worked - and we worked on elements of Lisa and Traspie. Still a work in progress (isn't it always?)! But it holds no fears now - just fun.

I’ve spoken to teachers about it, and they often just skip tandas when it’s super crowded + bad floorcraft as well.
NYC actually has been gradually developing a reputation for bad floorcraft + lack of cabeceos in recent years.

 

[HeporenBalleter]

I read something recently that really stuck: The best way to perform is to get completely lost in what you’re doing. Just keep tweaking it, keep perfecting it, and let everything else fall away. Heporen balleter

 

[opendoor]

Welcome to DF, Heporen !

 

[HeporenBalleter]

Welcome to DF, Heporen !

Thank you~ You Open this door for us....

 

[Brummbaer]

The best way to perform is to get completely lost in what you’re doing. Just keep tweaking it, keep perfecting it, and let everything else fall away.

Mixed views on that! Yes, seems like a motivational mantra, but you still need others (teachers, coach, other dancers) to confirm that you're doing something, let's say, 'acceptable'. Your viewpoint may not coincide with everyone else. Of course, it may also be accepted as 'better'. You need feedback in a social situation. You're not a 'performer' on your own, but with other partners.

But please elaborate...

 

[opendoor]

..The best way to perform is to get completely lost in what you’re doing..

That sounds much like a "flow" experience to me. But the flow state requires the unconscious programming of routines. Brummbär and I, however, are improvisers. And that only works with a bit of conscious awareness.
And please tell, what is your style?

 

[HeporenBalleter]

Mixed views on that! Yes, seems like a motivational mantra, but you still need others (teachers, coach, other dancers) to confirm that you're doing something, let's say, 'acceptable'. Your viewpoint may not coincide with everyone else. Of course, it may also be accepted as 'better'. You need feedback in a social situation. You're not a 'performer' on your own, but with other partners.

But please elaborate...

I‘m not sure it is right or not, but i think:

It's deep immersion, that magical state when you don't overthink each step and are completely immersed in the music, the character, and the moment. Technique is drilled so thoroughly that it becomes second nature, and then onstage, you can finally put it into words without any distractions from your conscious mind.

That immersion doesn't happen in a vacuum. It's built over countless hours with external feedback. My teacher corrects my alignment, my coach refines my epaulette, my partner adjusts to my weight. Their eyes train my body until my movements become instinctive. Without that input, "getting lost" is just guesswork.
Maybe it's a cycle.
In the studio: Always ask for feedback. Let others shape your instrument.
On stage: trust the preparation, stop analyzing, and just be there.
And even in that immersive state, you're never truly alone. You're responding to your partner's breathing, moving with the conductor's tempo, and absorbing the energy of the audience. Immersion isn't isolation, it's connection on a deeper level.

I liked how you pointed out that performance is inherently social. Ballet, in particular, lives in the space between people, whether it's a pas de deux or a solo dance in front of hundreds. The feedback loop never ends, it's just changing.

er.. Just some of my thoughts, and hope these can help you.

 

[HeporenBalleter]

I‘m not sure it is right or not, but i think:

It's deep immersion, that magical state when you don't overthink each step and are completely immersed in the music, the character, and the moment. Technique is drilled so thoroughly that it becomes second nature, and then onstage, you can finally put it into words without any distractions from your conscious mind.

That immersion doesn't happen in a vacuum. It's built over countless hours with external feedback. My teacher corrects my alignment, my coach refines my epaulette, my partner adjusts to my weight. Their eyes train my body until my movements become instinctive. Without that input, "getting lost" is just guesswork.
Maybe it's a cycle.
In the studio: Always ask for feedback. Let others shape your instrument.
On stage: trust the preparation, stop analyzing, and just be there.
And even in that immersive state, you're never truly alone. You're responding to your partner's breathing, moving with the conductor's tempo, and absorbing the energy of the audience. Immersion isn't isolation, it's connection on a deeper level.

I liked how you pointed out that performance is inherently social. Ballet, in particular, lives in the space between people, whether it's a pas de deux or a solo dance in front of hundreds. The feedback loop never ends, it's just changing.

er.. Just some of my thoughts, and hope these can help you.

When I first started, my teachers would often tell me to observe more, practice more, learn more to get my body in good shape, and that the easier it becomes to achieve good shape, the easier it will be to bring new ideas to life.

 

[HeporenBalleter]

That sounds much like a "flow" experience to me. But the flow state requires the unconscious programming of routines. Brummbär and I, however, are improvisers. And that only works with a bit of conscious awareness.
And please tell, what is your style?

I think I'm still an imitator. >.<

 

[Brummbaer]

When I first started, my teachers would often tell me to observe more, practice more, learn more to get my body in good shape, and that the easier it becomes to achieve good shape, the easier it will be to bring new ideas to life.

There's some truth in that.

The usual route is, like learning a language as an adult, or at school, vocabulary (elements), grammar (technique), and reading how others have used language ( Shakespeare, Goethe, Schiller, Chaucer, Kafka - and numerous modern works. At some point it's ingrained with adequate 'fluency' to break the rules, and invent new forms. More simply, a 'flow' state - you don't have to think about the structure, maybe the consequences, before you dance/speak.

But, sometimes, there's an 'editor', or native speaker, for a reason. And the ultimate 'editor' is your partner for the tanda.

 

[JournalInTime]

But the flow state requires the unconscious programming of routines. Brummbär and I, however, are improvisers. And that only works with a bit of conscious awareness.

This is not universal!

I cannot find flow with programming . . . I always feel like some conscious oversight is needed to ensure that the program runs. This isn't just in dance, but in all things.

I can find flow in improvisation. When I can just do whatever feels like should come next, which is just about never the same thing twice, I can abandon conscious oversight and just do.

So, I'd argue that for a lot of us, flow is achieved in the moment and is innately irreproducible. The minute any kind of routine or pattern is involved, which is to say reproducibility, the present becomes bridged to the past and spontaneity – and hence flow – is lost.

 

[opendoor]

I've only ever really experienced flow while climbing JournalInTime . I remember a via ferrata that was technically and physically very difficult. I only came to the surface for a break; during the two two-hour ascents, I was completely on autopilot.

 

[JournalInTime]

I've only ever really experienced flow while climbing JournalInTime . I remember a via ferrata that was technically and physically very difficult. I only came to the surface for a break; during the two two-hour ascents, I was completely on autopilot.

I find flow in writing: I can start a project and, suddenly, it's 8-10 hours later and I have thousands of words down. I start with no outline and sometimes no specific subject . . . My employer says we need an N-page item by next week to fill a schedule hole next month, and I simply start writing, letting the subject appear on its own and trusting the words to flow to describe it.

I find flow in walking: I know where I want to go, but my route there is driven by abstract things like light, plants along the way, and emotions about the buildings. I sort of show up at my destination not entirely sure how I got there. I've actually had to look at the GPS on my phone to know where I've been!

And I find flow in tango: I regularly have people I dance with tell me they've never danced some movement, and ask me what it was, exactly. I cannot tell them because I have no idea what I did, and generally, it's a thing I just invented out of feeling, not out of thought. My coach says that I'll have to work harder than most people to teach, because my dance is intuitive and spontaneous, not studied and planned, meaning that explaining it will be a challenge for me.

I think this is just how my brain is structured. I'm not good with outlines, itineraries, choreographies, etc. Which is bizarre, because when it comes to things like finances or moving house, I'm a checklist person.