How much practice till we went to our first milonga?

[Rabbit]

I can tell you how to get there: I took a lot of classes – too many, in the opinion of some on these forums. Because classes on musicality, technique, traffic management, etc. fail to open 2/3 of the time,

That's why these topics really should be introduced from day one of beginner classes.

 

[JournalInTime]

". . . but I don't want to see you anywhere but in the outside lane." I was told in simple words I couldn't misinterpret, in two languages, that the center was where peacocks danced very large and dangerous static movements (like huge colgadas with heels poking out), and therefore the absolutely worst place for beginners.

I forgot to emphasize one thing: This is advice for the milonga. The práctica has different rules: People who want to stop and repeat things should dance in the center, and leave the outside lane to people who want to work on their walk without having to pause; thus, the center is more beginner-friendly at the práctica, because there's less pressure to advance, while the outside lane is where you're likely to get run over by people taking big, fast steps. And in either venue, be careful in the corners . . . those are where people customarily slow down or stop to execute static movements.

 

[latinjazz]

I forgot to emphasize one thing: This is advice for the milonga. The práctica has different rules: People who want to stop and repeat things should dance in the center, and leave the outside lane to people who want to work on their walk without having to pause; thus, the center is more beginner-friendly at the práctica, because there's less pressure to advance, while the outside lane is where you're likely to get run over by people taking big, fast steps. And in either venue, be careful in the corners . . . those are where people customarily slow down or stop to execute static movements.

Makes sense! I will have to write it on a T-shirt when I go to Milongas...

 

[JournalInTime]

That's why these topics really should be introduced from day one of beginner classes.

I had teachers genuinely try . . . and people complained out loud, walked off to use the restroom, messed with their phones, etc. during any part of the lesson that focused on content other than steps. Integrating the non-vocabulary teaching into the vocabulary lessons is the obvious fix, but calls for a much higher level of pedagogy than most dancers-turned-teachers are capable of. And it isn't entirely the fault of teachers; most dance students just want to learn "Sick moves, man!" Tango is hardly immune to that.

 

[Brummbaer]

I forgot to emphasize one thing: This is advice for the milonga. The práctica has different rules: People who want to stop and repeat things should dance in the center, and leave the outside lane to people who want to work on their walk without having to pause; thus, the center is more beginner-friendly at the práctica, because there's less pressure to advance, while the outside lane is where you're likely to get run over by people taking big, fast steps. And in either venue, be careful in the corners . . . those are where people customarily slow down or stop to execute static movements.

I agree, but just interesting re your comments about the outside lane. I recollect being told once that in "olden times" (pick a tango period) it was important to dance in the outside lane. That way the leader got seen as someone a follower would dance with - and it showed off the follower. Thankfully AT doesn't have to be competitive, but from a competitive area you always wanted to show off to the judges or audiance. I've always found it odd that, as I've described the self-proclaimed maestros, or peacocks with big egos, seem to go for the center where they're hidden - or maybe that's the objective when they choose the pretty young follower (and that's in another thread).

A teacher once told me that when he went to a different milonga he chose the best dancer there because she would make him look good and he'd then get more dances. Personally I'm not quite up to taking the Ferrari out for a spin on the racetrack, but you need to be seen at a milonga; practicas are different.

Ah, the corners... once went to an interesting milonga in a bar with columns restricting the area. The available dance area was roughly an oval. People chose a "corner" anywhere on the ronda. Nevertheless it was a good an interesting milonga.

 

[Rabbit]

A teacher once told me that when he went to a different milonga he chose the best dancer there because she would make him look good and he'd then get more dances.

As opposed to... inviting the best dancer there because she's the best dancer there?

 

[Brummbaer]

As opposed to... inviting the best dancer there because she's the best dancer there?

It's business. You get more dances - and more prospective pupils. If you prefer the other take, no follower is going to turn down a dance once you've made your impression (or at least that's a simplistic male leader's view). What's to lose if you've got the confidence and ability? Nothing ventured, nothing gained, as the old saying goes.

And maybe that's what marks out us non-Argentinians - need to sell yourself with confidence, even if there's nothing much to sell.

 

[latinjazz]

It's business. You get more dances - and more prospective pupils. If you prefer the other take, no follower is going to turn down a dance once you've made your impression (or at least that's a simplistic male leader's view). What's to lose if you've got the confidence and ability? Nothing ventured, nothing gained, as the old saying goes.

And maybe that's what marks out us non-Argentinians - need to sell yourself with confidence, even if there's nothing much to sell.

Counts for many Argentinians, too. (I allow myself to write this because my mother is from there and I have family there) -Porteños are not precisely famous for being introverted and modest for instance. But of course there is many many overwhelmingly nice people, in BA and everywhere in Argentina.

 

[Rabbit]

It's business. You get more dances - and more prospective pupils. If you prefer the other take, no follower is going to turn down a dance once you've made your impression (or at least that's a simplistic male leader's view). What's to lose if you've got the confidence and ability? Nothing ventured, nothing gained, as the old saying goes.

Well my point is - when you don't know anyone, isn't it just the natural thing to do to invite whomever looks like the best available dancer anyway?

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Well my point is - when you don't know anyone, isn't it just the natural thing to do to invite whomever looks like the best available dancer anyway?

What if the best dancer is the person who performed that evening? Or an instructor? There are social nuances here. Also, you are assuming the "best" dancer wants to dance with you.

Can you tell who the best dancer is just by looking? You might be able to tell those who can't dance or are beginners, but beyond a certain skill level can you make that differentiation visually?

 

[Gssh]

Very important point and one I believe characterizes the really good dancers and the old milongueros. The ability to take a lifetime of training and condense it down into a small number of beautifully executed movements. Doing a lot of different things doesn't make for better tango, it just makes for a busier dance. The silences are important.

"I am not afraid of a man who knows 10000 kicks, i am afraid of a man who has practiced one kick 10000 times" Bruce Lee

 

[TTanguero]

Because classes on musicality, technique, traffic management, etc. fail to open 2/3 of the time, while "Dangerous Stuff You Should Never Try At The Milonga 101" always fills in 30 seconds

:-D

I've found that classes are the surest way to drown in vocabulary. So all you have to do to get too much vocabulary is continue your classes.

Yeah, that's the issue with group classes. Everyone wants to learn figures, as they think that's a measure of their progress, so that's what teachers teach. What I really want are classes that focus on improving the quality, but those wouldn't sell – so privates and occasional technique workshops are the only way to really get that.

But the group classes I take are good. The teachers are very focused on technique as well as teaching the cool moves, so I just pay more attention to the former than the latter.

 

[Brummbaer]

What if the best dancer is the person who performed that evening? Or an instructor? There are social nuances here. Also, you are assuming the "best" dancer wants to dance with you.

Can you tell who the best dancer is just by looking? You might be able to tell those who can't dance or are beginners, but beyond a certain skill level can you make that differentiation visually?

You observe first before you take a leap?

Never been in the position of trying to find the "best", usually trying to avoid; I'm just grateful for anyone who'll take the chance on 3 rounds if I don't know the venue. Again, observation.

 

[Brummbaer]

:-D


Yeah, that's the issue with group classes. Everyone wants to learn figures, as they think that's a measure of their progress, so that's what teachers teach. What I really want are classes that focus on improving the quality, but those wouldn't sell – so privates and occasional technique workshops are the only way to really get that.

But the group classes I take are good. The teachers are very focused on technique as well as teaching the cool moves, so I just pay more attention to the former than the latter.

Basically I agree, but there are some instructors who offer longer, more intensive, courses. I've attended some in the past where the focus has been on improving the technique and the quality. Very little on new figures, except to emphasise a point. They've been well worthwhile, but at a price and well booked up ahead (like one year ahead). You also need a partner.

Group classes have a value, and can also focus on technique. Two of the group classes we attend occasionally have a specific section set aside on technique, but you're right - it's mostly about extending the vocabulary. Without the time to become accustomed and integrate the new vocabulary between lessons then they're of negligible value.

 

[Rabbit]

What if the best dancer is the person who performed that evening? Or an instructor? There are social nuances here. Also, you are assuming the "best" dancer wants to dance with you.

Well, it was Brummbaer's friend, not me, who claimed to always invite the best dancer I just thought it was weird that dancing with good dancers would be considered a tactic rather than the object in itself.