How should followers learn to dance tango?

[bordertangoman]

I like this idea, thanks.:ladiesma:

if you like that then I would add for followers technique;(More Vin Diesel System)

The Falling Step; (particularly useful for milonguero* but applicable to all styles)
Concept; if you are pushed you will automatically put your foot under your weight to recover your balance
Exercise: no embrace, one person stands on one leg with eyes closed and the other gives them a gentle shove and you respond. Keep doing exploring different directions;
Then in embrace- with a partner; explore where you can get your followers foot to;
Noting that if you want a cross step or ocho you have to get the womans leg out of the 'collect' position first.

*if the embrace is full torso or down the shirt buttons the amount of pivot the woman can do is limited
so her ocho becomes more of an across behind step ( or "fat biddy ocho")
leaders please not that this reduces the length of step the follower can do so take smaller side steps.

 

[Peaches]

and freedom of leg movement should be taught from day 1. a relaxed hip/leg joint provides information to the leader about where her leg is.
try this: leader stands with his legs apart, follower stands in front and swings her relaxed leg back and fore. leader with his eyes closed and hands on her shoulder and feels where her free leg is by her movement*



*From the Vin Diesel System(TM)

I don't know about from Day 1. Mention it, perhaps, but there are more important things IMO. Simple and fundamental things about staying in front of the leader, trusting yourself to put your feet roughly where they need to be if you're thinking of nothing other than staying in front of your partner (it's amazing how remarkably easy crosses become when this is the approach), and staying forward/not taking your weight back. That's enough to keep her occupied for quite a while.

In a little bit (definitely not long after), then yes, the free leg becomes very important.

I like your exercise. I'm biased...it's exactly how I was taught. (Although in my case it was an exercise in just having the leg free, and feeling where it should go based on what the guy did with his hands--one on my belly, one on my back.)

 

[Peaches]

My post might sound as though its more geared to beginner leaders. But there is PLENTY to tell followers at this stage too especially when teaching the leaders these things. Incorporating both at the same time has benefits for both. Followers who learn without ever dancing with beginner leaders, and without watching the struggle leaders have, are more likely to develop into dancers who, shall we just say, don't add to the community spirit. If the followers take privates (and the leaders don't) the followers will either get VERY frustrated with the available leaders OR the beginner leaders will never have anyone to dance with.

I don't think there is much advantage for followers (or leaders) to take privates in the very beginning. Its expensive for one thing. No one should have to spend that kind of money to get an INTRO to a subject.

The problem isn't that you can't teach the proper basics in a class, its that classes so rarely DO. So the solution should be to change the way beginner classes are taught, not reinforce the need for total beginners to spend large amounts of money just to try out a new dance.

I'm sorry, but I must disagree...and strongly at that. I am firmly of the opinion that privates at the outset (OK, perhaps after an appetite has been whetted with a group class) save time, and trouble, and money, and help prevent bad habits right from the start.

 

[newbie]

For the sake of discussion, here are my ideas for how a follower would best learn tango. Please let me know your comments.

Granted, it would require that a decent tango community already existed nearby. Also, certain individual followers might take more or less time.

Stage-1: Take private lessons from a teacher until comfortable with the basic vocabulary (fwd, back, side, front-8, back-8, crusada, molinete), method of connection, and stepping to the beat. Depending on the style, some other fundamental movements might be included, such as ganchos, boleos, parada. The student would then be aware of and able to follow competent leading, although still basic, and dance to the music. This might take 4-8 lessons.

Stage-2: Begin attending various classes, to become familiar with other leaders and to learn other perspectives from various teachers. This stage also gives her a toe-in-the-door of the tango scene and prepares her for attending milongas. She should be instructed by her primary private teacher to ignore class sequences, but to remain focused on the follower’s technique instead. Possibly take additional privates occasionally to retain follower’s skills and discuss what she has been learning. If several class options are available, she should check them all out, just for additional exposure to many leaders and teachers. This might take another 2-4 months.

Stage-3: Begin attending milongas, because the largest portion of a follower’s abilities will be learned at the milongas and not in classes. Attend classes occasionally, to support the class structure for the sake of new leaders. Attend special workshops on occasion, to gain still further exposure to various teachers and perspectives.

I would skip the stage #2, whose idea is only to get socially accepted. Once your stage#1-teacher says that you're ready, go to milongas with him , he will introduce you to the community.

 

[Joe]

Followers never need to learn steps.

Presumably, by "steps" you really mean "patterns."

 

[bordertangoman]

Some leaders are oblivious of the follower's response....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lze88sU9IGg

 

[Gssh]

Which leads to the next question: How should leaders learn to dance tango? In my experience this is the flip side of the same coin: In most workshop leaders can't work on proper technique either because the followers are not skilled enough, and you end up just doing a pattern. I have thought about this quite a bit, and it is really a miracle anybody is learning anything. Beginners dancing with each other is not helpful, and beginners dancing with intermediate dancers is often even worse. Leaders memorizing patterns is equivalent to followers practicing boleos and ganchos on their own - it creates a outward resemblance to the real thing, but it really isn't it. I have often thought that followers are better off - they can actually experience a higher level of dancing than their own by dancing with a great leader, while as a beginning leader dancing with a great follower still puts you squarely at your own level of dancing, or even below because she will magnify any technical weaknesses. I mean, at every milonga there are two groups who have basically given up on this issue: The leaders who specialize in wrenching unsuspecting beginners through complex moves they have picked up in random workshops and on youtube, and the followers who specialize in being wrenched through complex moves that are a tad above their own ability by the "teachers" in the community. The only way to avoid that would be to have everybody start off with privates, and have teachers who resist the urge to do anything beyond embrace, walking and ochos for 2 months of privates before they release them into the wild, and who are egoless enough to expose the beginner to at least some of the range of embrace and walking and ocho technique that is possible. And honestly i see neither students nor teachers go for this model. Gssh

 

[Dave Bailey]

Presumably, by "steps" you really mean "patterns."

Mmm... yes, in this context.

A follower only needs to learn how to step (or pivot), in whatever direction is indicated by the leader. That's it.

Of course, that's extremely difficult to achieve - but it's not a memory test of foot movements.

 

[jennyisdancing]

Earlier in the thread, I saw someone made a point about how unusual it would be if there was a workshop focused on followers, where the guys are treated as practice dummies.

It reminded me of when I took a workshop on embellishments. We spent the whole hour doing solo exercises. What a waste. It's not much use learning how to do an embellishment if you don't learn when to use it. At least part of the class should have had leaders so we could have practiced during actual dancing with partners.

 

[Peaches]

IMO, two words: private lessons.

True for both leaders and followers. Accompanied by lots of time dancing in milongas.

 

[bordertangoman]

........ Leaders memorizing patterns is equivalent to followers practicing boleos and ganchos on their own - it creates a outward resemblance to the real thing, but it really isn't it. . Gssh

I have to say I disagree with this; Firstly no-one can make a followers leg relax except herself
that why she needs to practice- usually against a wall getting the free leg to move with minimum muscular tension.

As to memorizing patterns; of course its necessary but the patterns just keep getting smaller;
like learning notes on an instrument you build up your ability in the notes and the rhythms they can be used in.

If you are learning something musical its better to work with a movement that you already know; that's how I learnt milonga; with a six step pattern; that allowed me find the rhythmic elements.

And I know one pattern dancer who was quite spectacular; but his partner didnt know the patterns so he was a skilful leader.

 

[Lui]

jennyisdancing

Well, this depends maybe on the area you live. Here, it’s not uncommon that the lady teacher dances the men’s part, invites male partners for the last third of the workshop or her leading partner dances with the each student. Actually I don’t see any alternative way to fit embellishments like a fast crossing forward into the flow of real dance. We have chosen the last option, as inviting male partners his a hell of organization and Sonja don’t like being caught up dancing the leader's role, ignoring the rest of the class. I particularly like Followers Workshop in summer, as I can sit in the sun most of the day and just have to lead some walking or boleos in the meantime .

 

[pascal]

if there was a workshop focused on followers, where the guys are treated as practice dummies.

It happenened to me. In a series of ten workshops about women technique, the teacher (Gladys something, Fernandez or Gonzales or something) tought nine women-only classes and for the last one, each woman had to bring a toy boy. The class was free for us. It was a very relaxed class for us, no pressure at all for a change, all we had to do was to stand still and loan our hands while the women were rehearsing their embellishments.

 

[jennyisdancing]

It happenened to me. In a series of ten workshops about women technique, the teacher (Gladys something, Fernandez or Gonzales or something) tought nine women-only classes and for the last one, each woman had to bring a toy boy. The class was free for us. It was a very relaxed class for us, no pressure at all for a change, all we had to do was to stand still and loan our hands while the women were rehearsing their embellishments.

Yes, I've had this happen with other dances such as salsa, just not with tango. And the leaders got in free, just as you did. I think the OP's frustration was that she paid just as much as the leaders did for workshops, but felt that as a follower she received little or no benefit. Most classes/workshops I've taken, the teachers make a point of teaching the ladies something, even if the class is primarily leader-focused.

 

[Madahlia]

Earlier in the thread, I saw someone made a point about how unusual it would be if there was a workshop focused on followers, where the guys are treated as practice dummies.

It reminded me of when I took a workshop on embellishments. We spent the whole hour doing solo exercises. What a waste. It's not much use learning how to do an embellishment if you don't learn when to use it. At least part of the class should have had leaders so we could have practiced during actual dancing with partners.

"How" is the easier bit. The "when" - dictated by the music and the rhythm but slotted into a social dance with unpredictable leaders - is very much harder. But I'd be very happy to have a workshop just in the "how".

To avoid half the class feeling like practice dummies, would it not be possible to devote half the teaching time to each role, then everyone would know they'd get a turn. It's not rocket science. Is it?