How to teach floor craft ?

[LadyLeader]

In principle, I am of the opinion that we do not need trainers, coaches or instructors to learn tango. This does not mean that these people do not have particular knowledge and skills that I lack. Rather, it means that the student makes the curriculum, writes the syllabus. When things get stuck, he gets help from someone who can solve the problem. This approach is called constructivist. Basically that's how I learned tango, in other words, I taught myself. Now to the point that the teacher should pick the student. As indicated above, this was a very personal statement. I have gone through life without a Guru. But believe me, I've always wanted one. In 1992 it almost happend. I picked up the famous philosopher Ivan Illich from the airport to give a lecture at University. We started talking in the car, I opened my mouth and after two words Illich said: You are a teacher. He recognized me, I became his indoor student. Unfortunately, he died of cancer shortly afterwards. Illich did not leave a school of thought, his students dispersed.

Oh, it was a lot of information! Thanks!
I peeked into a short presentation of constructivism and it feels like a logical approach even if I may not go deeper on it now. I read also the link about Illich you provided and it must have been a fascinating and inspiring person to meet and follow!

When I restarted my learning I wanted to keep the initiative in my hands but meet a teacher for feedback and problem-solving. The frame for this is more based on the learning models I have traveled through during a lifetime without any specific personal philosophy base.

 

[Rabbit]

I peeked into a short presentation of constructivism and it feels like a logical approach even if I may not go deeper on it now.

I hadn't heard about it before either, but it seems to be in accord with my own learning model and how I believe people learn tango generally.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

In that case, a good teacher should tell you that you're not really ready for X yet, you can try if you want to see how it feels like but it won't be easy, and propose an easier alternative that will build towards your goal.

I would agree with that. I think my quibble with the earlier statement about colgadas is that we shouldn't expect teachers/mentors/advisors to turn us into brilliant dancers. More simply, we should be realistic about our expectations and limits, and what teachers can and cannot do for us. When you get beyond that, you're really moving into a form of semi-professional training, where your goals become very different and you're willing to put in the hours of work it will take to get there. Of course, we want to progress, but you cannot study with someone, even privately, and say, "I want to dance like X." That's an unrealistic expectation. Especially if you're not X.

 

[Rabbit]

Of course, we want to progress, but you cannot study with someone, even privately, and say, "I want to dance like X." That's an unrealistic expectation. Especially if you're not X.

I think it's impossible. I can never dance like X, because I am not X. X can't dance like me either, because he is not me.

 

[Brummbaer]

I think it's impossible. I can never dance like X, because I am not X. X can't dance like me either, because he is not me.

Mixing quotations:

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness.
(Oscar Wilde)

To be a milonguero, first of all you have your own style of dancing.
(Ricardo Vidort)


For AT, it's not just about doing the steps, you have to put some tango feeling into them (but not as in ballroom)

 

[Rabbit]

For AT, it's not just about doing the steps, you have to put some tango feeling into them (but not as in ballroom)

I didn't mean putting an intentional feeling or style. Dancing is also about who you are, how you perceive sensations and express yourself, what you want and why. Tango lessons can't change that.

 

[Cabbit]

Style and feeling can be separate, and lessons can help bring both to the surface. It is the difference between what you want to express and the ways you use your body to do so.

Like with handwriting or visual arts, dance style develops with constant use and becomes more unique.

 

[opendoor]

For AT, it's not just about doing the steps, you have to put some tango feeling into them (but not as in ballroom)

Also ballroomers are able put feeling into dance. But what feelings arise dancing to an artificial fixed-speed serial product?

 

[Brummbaer]

Dancing is also about who you are, how you perceive sensations and express yourself, what you want and why. Tango lessons can't change that.

We also 'act' to display something. Your own self-perception may be part of that, or you develop (and act) another persona.

 

[LadyLeader]

I want to dance like X.

I see quite a lot of possibilities when I read this line and most of them just tell about the direction a dancer wants to develop.

It could be about learning another kind of abrazo. From open to close!
I could be about a style in a broader sense - tango salong, milonguero
When I told my teacher that I want to learn Achavals enrosques I did not have in mind to hit the dance world by surprise and become a spinning copy of Sebastian. It was about his technique, which I hope to learn well enough so the enrosques are ok at a milonga.

But there is a phenomenon I do not understand really - some teachers have students who even choose the same haircut and clothing as the teachers. . . . . .

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness.
(Oscar Wilde)

I always forget the important second half of that statement.

 

[Rabbit]

We also 'act' to display something. Your own self-perception may be part of that, or you develop (and act) another persona.

But one actor's portrayal of a character is still different from another actor's.

Still it's an interesting point: do you have a different persona on the dance floor? (I don't think that I do)

 

[Brummbaer]

But one actor's portrayal of a character is still different from another actor's.

Still it's an interesting point: do you have a different persona on the dance floor? (I don't think that I do)

The key point is that an actor can portray another character. Yes, they bring their own take into that - which is why some are regarded as good and others as, well, not so good. I'd take imitation as acting.

Do I have a different persona on the dance floor? I can. Just like I had a different 'style' with a business meeting, lecture/presentation, team briefing, solving some tech problem, etc., compared with dinner at home with the family. Sometimes it's a default; sometimes it's a choice. Some people want to take on their perception, or a stereotype, of the 'golden age - the trousers, jacket, shoe style, hair style, dancing style. In other dance styles people may take on the 1940s, 1950s, or older. The evening milonga after work was a different feeling than after a relaxing day of retirement. It's a different persona dancing some last, romantic, tanda with my wife than earlier with some random follower (but I'd act some role if it was for show purposes).

So, when our teacher says, "Yes, the move was ok, but it just wasn't very 'tango'. You need to put more feeling into it", yes, I'll adopt some role which I think is more appropriate. Sometimes it works. With time and practice it becomes the way of doing that. The interesting question is whether you're doing it for show or it's that relationship with between 2 people within a tanda.....

Nobody wants to look like a bad dancer. OK, dance like no one is watching you - but they are. Some future follower maybe. So, maybe you do want to act like you are the benevolent master of the ronda with exquisite floorcraft, even if you're not.

 

[TTanguero]

Still it's an interesting point: do you have a different persona on the dance floor? (I don't think that I do)

I'm with Brummbaer: I don't have a single persona, I have different aspects to my personality that are expressed in different contexts. The Ben that sits at home writing is different to the Ben that directs a short film is different to the Ben that dances tango. And sometimes different aspects of my personality are expressed when dancing with different partners.

 

[Rabbit]

Nobody wants to look like a bad dancer. OK, dance like no one is watching you - but they are. Some future follower maybe. So, maybe you do want to act like you are the benevolent master of the ronda with exquisite floorcraft, even if you're not.

Well, that's not something you can act really, a bad dancer can't act like a good one because they lack the skills.

When I change the feeling/expression I'm just responding to my partner and the music. It can be a different aspect of my personality, but I don't try to act as someone else or copy their style. I guess that's also a matter of self confidence too.