I started Latin dancing because I wanted to be able to dance like this

vit said:
As a contrast, let's check this clip (Ina and Troels are frequently mentioned here, so the clip choice). What is the ratio of strong/"stiff" and fluid parts in their dancing ? When it's strong/stiff, what is strong and what isn't that strong ... ?

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It’s definitely something that can be appreciated as beautiful dancing. But there are certain things that are sort of built into the style now like the straight legs and arm styling that are pretty much a requirement throughout the dance in order to earn an acceptable score to win the competition. There’s a whole history of ballroom dancing and the people who created it and what they see as what it should be reflected, and the output we see in the couples who must meet those standards. On the other hand, Wilmer and Maria faced fewer limitations and could create the dance that they wanted to create, and interestingly created something that was quite historical in its conception just the same.
 
DanceMentor said:
But there are certain things that are sort of built into the style now like the straight legs and arm styling that are pretty much a requirement throughout the dance in order to earn an acceptable score to win the competition. There’s a whole history of ballroom dancing and the people who created it and what they see as what it should be reflected, and the output we see in the couples who must meet those standards. On the other hand, Wilmer and Maria faced fewer limitations and could create the dance that they wanted to create, and interestingly created something that was quite historical in its conception just the same.
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Sure each genre has specific styling requirements - someone in the past decided that it looks most beautiful certain way, so we have for instance straight legs in BR latin. And, they are straight in particular steps, while we have lots of moments when both follower's legs are bent

Now hard to say does it enhances the feeling of stiffness of the dance. Also, if we look BR standard, we will see legs being much more bent on average in competitive/performance than in social BR standard ...

As about follower's arm styling, I think we can see similar in many other genres, this is a kind of more universal

But my point was on the frame/connection - they are also changing through the dance, sometimes there is a lot of force, sometimes very little or not at all, so there is more contrast in whole performance. But people like to play with it even in some social oriented genres (WCS, salsa, sensual bachata, zouk ...), matching various accents in the music ...
 
vit said:
Sure each genre has specific styling requirements - someone in the past decided that it looks most beautiful certain way, so we have for instance straight legs in BR latin. And, they are straight in particular steps, while we have lots of moments when both follower's legs are bent

Now hard to say does it enhances the feeling of stiffness of the dance. Also, if we look BR standard, we will see legs being much more bent on average in competitive/performance than in social BR standard ...

As about follower's arm styling, I think we can see similar in many other genres, this is a kind of more universal

But my point was on the frame/connection - they are also changing through the dance, sometimes there is a lot of force, sometimes very little or not at all, so there is more contrast in whole performance. But people like to play with it even in some social oriented genres (WCS, salsa, sensual bachata, zouk ...), matching various accents in the music ...
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Yes I hear you. There are definitely some nuances and Within each style there certain freedoms of how to work with the connection or the arm styling. I think my overall point is just that ballroom dancing is a competitive sport and there are specific expectations that must be met which can place a lot of limits on what couples can do to make the dancing their own.
 
DanceMentor said:
...I think my overall point is just that ballroom dancing is a competitive sport and there are specific expectations that must be met which can place a lot of limits on what couples can do to make the dancing their own.
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Yes, I hear you. But is there anything wrong with following the style guidelines in competitive sports, but breaking them or developing them in a completely different way in social dancing?
 
opendoor said:
... But is there anything wrong with following the style guidelines in competitive sports, but breaking them or developing them in a completely different way in social dancing?
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Problem is ... in most cases, you should first master the rules to be able to break them in any kind of successful way ... there are not many social ballroom dancers without competitive history to be at that level ... which is also connected with the topic "ballroom declining in popularity"
 
opendoor said:
Yes, I hear you. But is there anything wrong with following the style guidelines in competitive sports, but breaking them or developing them in a completely different way in social dancing?
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Some of the above discussion is about style of technique -- a fairly rigid frame as opposed to a more flowing connection. Using a technique different from your partner's expectations would not work well. It might be like pushing on a rope.

If one uses ballroom hips and arm styling while dancing simple patterns with a beginner, that advertises what kind of a dancer they are and more advanced dancers would be more inclined to invite or accept an invitation to dance. But a large part of arm styling and hips are ignored by many social dancers without problem.

Developing style completely different in social dancing would confuse any partner you didn't develop the style with.
 
Greybeard said:
...Using a technique different from your partner's expectations would not work well...
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Wasn't the context about mixing different styles? We were talking about Cuban, International, and so on. In such a case, there are no expectations on the part of the dance partner. The motto then is: anything goes.
 
opendoor said:
Wasn't the context about mixing different styles? We were talking about Cuban, International, and so on. In such a case, there are no expectations on the part of the dance partner. The motto then is: anything goes.
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In American Style Ballroom, I provide a pretty rigid frame. My lead is through my frame, much like in AT I try to lead from my chest. I expect my follower to have pretty rigid arms. Not as rigid as concrete, but pretty firm.

But Vic seems to like a looser connection.
vit said:
Actually, I can still have reasonably satisfying dance (salsa) with a follower that doesn't have much fluidity in upper body, as long as she is able to compensate with flexibility of arms
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A partner with a looser frame doesn't lead me to want to do anything flashy. And she would probably feel like I had her in a straight jacket.
 
Greybeard said:
..And she would probably feel like I had her in a straight jacket.
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But with your answer, you seem to agree with me in principle that you still are able to dance with different dance partners in different frames, holds, and with different sorts of connections (regardless of your preferred style).
 
Well, it's what they do for living and earning money as a dancer / dance teacher isn't easy, not much people got rich that way ... so it's to be expected. They sell dance lessons, they don't sell dance history ...
 
Bailango said:
It is especially danced for the video and social media.
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Absolutely, way more dramatic than club dancing but it's still lovely... I appreciate that you can see the Cuban roots throughout the movement, even if they incorporate some more contemporary tricks and borrowed leg, arm styling more commonly seen in other latin forms.

It's not pure but it's a nice homage and tapestry like - similar to the Latino culture itself.
 
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