"...if you don't give everything to your partners, what's the point of dancing tango?"

[pianistamediano]

I think it was Vidort (not sure since I don't have the quote in front of me), who used the metaphor of the asada and said something like when you dance tango, you have to "put all the meat on the grill." In other words, dance like you mean it or don't dance at all.

This is more or less what I meant by "giving everything", rather what everyone else is doing by taking it literally. The context should have been provided at the start; you can read the original post here.

It doesn't mean that you have to literally give everything, just that you put all your energy, effort, soul (whatever that means) into the dance and give it freely to your partner. If you are a cerebral dancer at heart, I suppose it might mean that you devote all your attention and processing power to the dance.

I can usually sense when a follower holds back and doesn't give everything; it can feel like hesitance, detachment, et cetera.

Personally, I am a musician, so tango is the dance and the music for me, and it is also the feelings and embrace - and above most the feeling of being connected to another. If there is any kind of magic in this world, it must be in the attempt of understanding someone sharing something. And that, too, is tango for me.

(Your mileage may vary )

 

[TTanguero]

It doesn't mean that you have to literally give everything, just that you put all your energy, effort, soul (whatever that means) into the dance and give it freely to your partner

I think that was understood by most. For me, it means that I give 100% attention to my partner, the music, and the ronda. That's what makes tango such a meditative experience for me, because for 12 minutes, there's no space for any other thoughts, there is only this connection.

 

[JournalInTime]

I think that was understood by most. For me, it means that I give 100% attention to my partner, the music, and the ronda.

That's precisely what I meant, anyway! As I wrote elsewhere recently (edited for brevity):

When you see me dancing, you're seeing my art. I'm not putting on a show. You're seeing the music as I hear and feel it.​

​

When you dance on the same floor as me, know that I'm doing my best not to be difficult to dance around; floorcraft is as important to me as musicality, technique, and all the rest. Sometimes I get caught up in the connection and commit errors. However, I feel a connection to you and I respect our shared passion.

When you dance with me, you're the most important person in my life. I'm connected to you. I'm composing a piece of art for you. I can't promise to be perfect, but I'm doing my best. That's the least I can do, because you're helping me live my passion.​

​

That is, my "everything" is being fully mindful and respectful of the music, the ronda, and my partner. It's an almost purely mental phenomenon that has little to do with strength, speed, technical complexity, etc. There are dancers who regard "everything" as expressing every note with complicated vocabulary that captures every nuance and reverberation, and using 100% of their physicality and athleticism to accomplish this, but I am not such a dancer. For me, "everything" is about connection and soul-baring, not pushing the borders of my level of skill or that of my partner.

Which isn't to say that I never go physically and technically all-out. Sometimes I do. However, my experience is that this generally makes the ronda more intimidating to others, and that while it shows my partner that I have confidence in or even admiration of their dance skills, making them operate at full physical and technical capacity generally means it's more show than connection. I'd say that squeezing a little more out of the music by sacrificing some of my connection to the ronda and my partner sums up to a total that's less than "everything."

 

[pianistamediano]

There are dancers who regard "everything" as expressing every note with complicated vocabulary that captures every nuance and reverberation, and using 100% of their physicality and athleticism to accomplish this

I wish more performers were aware of this and stayed away from this form of unsubtle, crude musicality...

"everything" is about connection and soul-baring

Yes!

 

[TTanguero]

I wish more performers were aware of this and stayed away from this form of unsubtle, crude musicality...

I admire the skill involved in performances which dance every single note, so I don't think I'd characterise them in the same way, but ... yeah, it's not a dance style I'd want to emulate even if I had the skill to do so.

 

[opendoor]

I admire the skill involved in performances which dance every single note, so I don't think I'd characterise them in the same way...

I cannot admire that mapping of every note. Once in a while we could do so, but music is much more divers and not made of single notes only: there is the phrase, the dynamics, rhythm changes, second voices and harmonies. Mapping every note is only one means among others.

.. it's not a dance style I'd want to emulate even if I had the skill to do so..

I don't find that "mapping every note" is a certain dance style. Of course usually milonguero stylists do so (cadencia) but it is not exclusive to this style.

 

[pianistamediano]

performances which dance every single note

To use a musical analogy, I would compare something like this:

to this:

Both are marvellous pianists, far, far better than I will ever be.

But Lang Lang is the equivalent of mapping every note - he does too much. He flails, he rises, he falls, he dramatizes his movements, he emotes. And in doing too much, he does not do enough justice to the music. Nothing wrong with that approach; it is a performance, after all, and the audience is entertained by the music and his movements.

Horowitz is much more restrained. He devotes his all to the music, in eliciting the full beauty of the music from his piano, and keeps the theatrics to a minimum. He doesn't remain a statue for the whole piece either. And his performance is as amazing, if not more.

In this example, playing every note in the piece is not the equivalent of dancing every note in the music; rather, it is playing every note in the piece and accompanying them with excessive movements.

In dancing every note in the music, one adds too much. You may as well be using a loudspeaker to amplify every note. I call it unsubtle musicality because it is the same as singing every note in a song at the top of your voice. There is little to no variation. Even if you add the other stuff - like what opendoor mentioned in the post above - it remains unsubtle and crude.

And it does not require much skill - at best, physical prowess for the faster songs. It is just stepping on every beat taken to an extreme.

(I will acknowledge that this is quite subjective; indeed, many people would enjoy a Lang Lang concert more than a Horowitz concert.)

 

[TTanguero]

Yes, and yes.

 

[JournalInTime]

I admire the skill involved in performances which dance every single note

There are times when that's fun. If you have the right partner, for whom it's no effort at all to express every note, it can even be connected. Moreover, if the floor is empty, you don't have to worry about collateral damage. Knowing where and when to dance that way – and with whom – is yet another part of giving "everything."

Problems arise when ordinary social dancers see performers doing this and get so mesmerized by the speed, flying feet, and general flash that they ignore that (1) "where" is an empty floor or a stage, (2) "when" is "during a performance," and (3) "who" is "partners who've spent a significant fraction of a professional lifetime developing their connection." It's a forest/trees situation. Then these spectators try the same stuff with random partners in crowded milongas.

I guess most of us go through that phase. I did. These days, though, when I want to play that way, I pick very specific partners for very specific music, at times so early or late at the milonga (or at a milonga so poorly attended) that we have a nearly empty floor. It's still not a show, though . . . I want to dance to that music with that person because I feel a connection. It just happens that "everything" can become more athletic and technical under the circumstances without making the sacrifices that would require in a more typical social tanda.

 

[Greybeard]

Which isn't to say that I never go physically and technically all-out. Sometimes I do. However, my experience is that this generally makes the ronda more intimidating to others, and that while it shows my partner that I have confidence in or even admiration of their dance skills, making them operate at full physical and technical capacity generally means it's more show than connection. I'd say that squeezing a little more out of the music by sacrificing some of my connection to the ronda and my partner sums up to a total that's less than "everything."

Add the consideration you're showing to all the other dancers and your partner and you're back to "everything".

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Its not "..because.." Its rather "..and.." In the beginning I did not know that certain music could move me that strong. As I have written above, it does not happen with ordinary music.

Well, that's interesting. I assume this is more than simply a practice method on your part.

 

[opendoor]

No, I moved into tango music first. Then I learned to distinguish good from bad. I have also developed my dancing skills beyond tango. Unfortunately, my physis put limits on this.

 

[Rabbit]

(I will acknowledge that this is quite subjective; indeed, many people would enjoy a Lang Lang concert more than a Horowitz concert.)

Well, we can objectively say that Horowitz plays with a much wider dynamic range than Lang Lang, let's say from 2-9 on a scale of 10 vs 7-10. For people not familiar with the language of classical music it might well be easier to connect with a 7-10 performance but I think the majority of classical aficionados would prefer a 2-9 performance.

For some reason most people in tango dance a very narrow dynamic range and declare it to be their style. I find this as self-evidently absurd as playing the piano without ever departing from very loud (ff) or very soft (pp). And that's why I don't agree with either maximalism or minimalism, I don't watch performances or care about the competitions and I don't go to encuentros either, because I value this dynamic range as highly in dance as I do in music.

 

[opendoor]

..And that's why ..I don't watch performances or care about the competitions and I don't go to encuentros either...

Digital music files as well as analogue mixed vinyl records went through a compressor. I suspect that only a few people here on this forum actually know the full dynamic range of tango. What DJs play, even the high resolution and lossless files, distort the music. And everyone got used to it.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

I don't watch performances or care about the competitions and I don't go to encuentros either, because I value this dynamic range as highly in dance as I do in music.

What's wrong with encuentros? I'm not following about dynamic range. Does that mean you prefer music from the extremes not just the center?