I'm looking at Sacadas...

[Dave Bailey]

It's not supposed to become part of anyone's dance. It's just a technical drill, to deliberately practice a specific, physical skill set. The idea of a sacada is necessary also, but what good is it if you are not skillful enough to execute it?

Unfortunately, you can stress that until you're blue in the face, and people tend not to listen.

If they do a sequence, they tend to naturally think of it as a sequence. You need to develop some experience before you can automatically break each sequence down into component steps, and experiment with each component - and you certainly don't get that time or luxury in most classes.

People remember movements far more than words.

 

[bordertangoman]

Unfortunately, you can stress that until you're blue in the face, and people tend not to listen.

If they do a sequence, they tend to naturally think of it as a sequence. You need to develop some experience before you can automatically break each sequence down into component steps, and experiment with each component - and you certainly don't get that time or luxury in most classes.

People remember movements far more than words.

trouble is they remember the ones they came with to the lesson more than the ones they did in the lesson

 

[AndaBien]

Unfortunately, you can stress that until you're blue in the face, and people tend not to listen.

If they do a sequence, they tend to naturally think of it as a sequence. You need to develop some experience before you can automatically break each sequence down into component steps, and experiment with each component - and you certainly don't get that time or luxury in most classes.

I see where you are coming from. I was thinking in terms of musicians, who, as a rule, practice their scales. That doesn't mean that they will just toss in a scale when they are playing, but then, more often then not, they are reading sheet music rather than improvising.

Your point is a good one and maybe merits a new thread. How many leaders can be truely creative with their dance (as an artist), as opposed to those who seemingly have no creativity and only do what they've seen before (as a craftsman)?

 

[Mario7]

Yes, you could dance it this way. Either way, I guarantee that it is easier than learning con giro. This will allow you to practice a simple sacada. If you are comfortable enough, you may continue offering sacada with each step... left to left... right to right..

You know Angel, I remember practising that very same series of sacadas across a dance floor and even got applause in class for it..(My secret was listening to the music, too!)..anyway, what stops me is that it was a 'Nuevo' class and I'm trying to remember if I ever tried it in close-embrace..I seem to remember feeling like there was a brick wall in front of me when trying it in Cl.Emb...that there just wasn't enough room to go straight at the woman and sacadaing across her legs!... I don't have anyone to practise it with at the moment and am looking to hear any replies to this concern..thks

 

[Mladenac]

mario try going on straight leg, with heel first.
when you turn you should rotate in following way: shoulders, hips, leg.

point of sacada is to step on woman old place, while turning torso.
So that will make here sacada.
Problem is in CE that you must better control you torso

some guys that are dancing a few years still have problems with sacada

 

[opendoor]

Re: new thread

..I see where you are coming from. I was thinking in terms of musicians, who, as a rule, practice their scales...

Hi AndaBien, and that is actually the reason for the fact, that I don´t want to go in that controlled direction ! Look at argentine tutorials for the Bandoneón: scales up and down, and over lots of pages.... That may be the traditional teaching method in that part of the world, but I think thats repulsive, and creativity-killing. But, by no means a rule. Same with the tango teaching methods I criticized in one the current threads. Think there are different approaches and each his own.

 

[AndaBien]

...and that is actually the reason for the fact, that I don´t want to go in that controlled direction ! Look at argentine tutorials for the Bandoneón: scales up and down, and over lots of pages.... That may be the traditional teaching method in that part of the world, but I think thats repulsive, and creativity-killing. But, by no means a rule. Same with the tango teaching methods I criticized in one the current threads. Think there are different approaches and each his own.

Freedom to a dancer means discipline. That is what technique is for: liberation.
— Martha Graham


The only reason for mastering technique is to make sure the body does not stand in the way of the soul's expression.
— La Meri


Master technique and then forget about it and be natural.
— Anna Pavlova
​

You are right - to each his own.

 

[bordertangoman]

I see where you are coming from. I was thinking in terms of musicians, who, as a rule, practice their scales. That doesn't mean that they will just toss in a scale when they are playing, but then, more often then not, they are reading sheet music rather than improvising.

Your point is a good one and maybe merits a new thread. How many leaders can be truely creative with their dance (as an artist), as opposed to those who seemingly have no creativity and only do what they've seen before (as a craftsman)?

i THINK the musical analogy is apt but limited; musicians will practice musical sequences other than scales but within scale; eg two notes up one note down; this is to familiarise the finger movements ( say for sax or piano) FOR SMOOTH FAST EVEN PLAYING; they practice s l o w ly so as to learn good precision. fast with mistakes is not good; and for jazz players familiarity with note to note transistions within a given key means they can rip up down and improvise; another instrumnet is usually responsible for holding down a structure against which to improvise against ( eg bass or drums holding a rhythm- listen to Miles Davis and you will hear this happening; he always liked to have a good anchor man holding down the groove)

I have danced a steps that no-one ever taught me in a class room, but mostly you need to practice enough that it becomes second nature and you can give your awareness to the music and your partner and not worry where the hell your feet are. I never think in terms of
sequences; cross-system its just a knowledge of where the feet and weight is and where I want them to go next. I mean there isnt time to think the word sacada whilst doing a sacada.

 

[AndaBien]

i THINK the musical analogy is apt but limited; musicians will practice musical sequences other than scales but within scale; eg two notes up one note down; this is to familiarise the finger movements ( say for sax or piano) FOR SMOOTH FAST EVEN PLAYING; they practice s l o w ly so as to learn good precision. ...

Good technique can improve speed, certainly, but also other problems. For dancers, good technique often improves ones ability to go slowly.

 

[Dave Bailey]

I see where you are coming from. I was thinking in terms of musicians, who, as a rule, practice their scales. That doesn't mean that they will just toss in a scale when they are playing, but then, more often then not, they are reading sheet music rather than improvising.

Yes - Tango is the equivalent of a jamming session, I guess.

I wonder what music would be like if it were always improvised?

 

[AndaBien]

Yes - Tango is the equivalent of a jamming session, I guess.

I wonder what music would be like if it were always improvised?

Interesting observation. Some musicians, I'm thinking of folk, just love getting together and playing the same tunes again and again, and they have a fine time doing it. Other musicians, more in the jazz genre, wouldn't think of playing a tune the same way, ever.

 

[Angel HI]

You know Angel, I remember practising that very same series of sacadas across a dance floor and even got applause in class for it..(My secret was listening to the music, too!)..anyway, what stops me is that it was a 'Nuevo' class and I'm trying to remember if I ever tried it in close-embrace..I seem to remember feeling like there was a brick wall in front of me when trying it in Cl.Emb...that there just wasn't enough room to go straight at the woman and sacadaing across her legs!...

Seems that there are 2 seperate discussions going on on this thread. However, you are correct... some movements do not work in some styles, and thi is the reason there are differing styles. The good news is that this one will work in CEAT. When you get the op, try it again with just a wee more forward posture between the partnership. It can be done, though I must admit, more than 2 at a time is not often danced in CE.

 

[Angel HI]

Unfortunately, you can stress that until you're blue in the face, and people tend not to listen.

&*%#@!, isn't that the truth. Though, I insist upon teaching elements from day one, and give, and solicit, amalgamated options. One of my partners says that it just confuses persons, but I believe it to be a great part of the learning process.

 

[Mladenac]

IMHO elements should be taught.

But at the end of lesson some improvisations would be good so those elements would not become boring.

 

[AndaBien]

You know Angel, I remember practising that very same series of sacadas across a dance floor and even got applause in class for it..(My secret was listening to the music, too!)..anyway, what stops me is that it was a 'Nuevo' class and I'm trying to remember if I ever tried it in close-embrace..I seem to remember feeling like there was a brick wall in front of me when trying it in Cl.Emb...that there just wasn't enough room to go straight at the woman and sacadaing across her legs!... I don't have anyone to practise it with at the moment and am looking to hear any replies to this concern..thks

Mario, I'm not sure if I understand the movement you are talking about here, but there are two sacadas, at least, that work very well in close embrace, and can be done repeatedly, pretty much in a straight line. In crossed-system, the leader can sacada the followers L leg with his R leg. Walking on the other side, he can sacada her R leg using his L leg. Both of these moves can be done repeatedly, with a single step in between. In fact, these two moves can be alternated with each other, with no steps in between. It results in the leader walking, more or less, in between the followers feet. You just have to be slow and gentle, and you have to be sure the follower has begun to move just a split second before you do. That's where good following on your part becomes important.

To clarify, these sacadas use the outside of the leader's leg against the inside of the follower's leg. They can be done at various levels of the leg.