Is Pro Am becoming a sport of only the wealthy?

[IndyLady]

I think it's also going to make a difference that we'll have individuals going forward who have grown up with the internet and google and are accustomed to having any and all information at their fingertips that they could possibly want.

Completely agree.

Also - expectations have exploded wrt customization and building the product that the individual wants. (Back in the day when I worked at McD's, there were occasionally special orders like no pickles, but now it seems like it's more the rule than the exception. As a kid, it never occurred to me to ask for a change to the standard offering, but now I probably ask for an alteration like no pickles over half the time). So large packages where all or most of the costs are baked in and where it's impossible to pick and choose elements (dinner, hotel, etc) are going to be less acceptable to future generations of ballroomers.

 

[GinaN]

To reply to this, I quote the old joke:

A plumber was called to fix a leak under a sink. He arrived, reached under the sink, and twisted a connector, stopping the leak immediately. The overjoyed customer was handed a bill for $100. "Why is this bill so high?!!! All you did was twist your hand for a moment! This is outrageous - you only actually 'worked' for one minute. Do you really expect me to pay you $100 a minute for your services? I demand that you tell me how you came up with this price!"

The plumber replied "Ok, I'll break the charges down for you:

Turning my wrist $1
Knowing what connector to turn $99

"Its not what I do, its what I know."

Yes...it's not always about how long something takes.

And it boils down to what people are willing to pay for the perceived value they get.

That said, it sucks to be on the OTHER end of that equation if you don't have the money to dance with the pro you want, or if it really puts a stress on your finances to do it.

It really is why the first couple of times my previous coach quoted competitions being in the $1000s each for my partner and I, it made it so much less interesting for me. It put a dent into even wanting to compete.

 

[Mr 4 styles]

<~~~~ Looks around...... realizing he makes a lot more . How much a given professional makes is related to many factors including supply and demand truthfully it's harder and less likely to be an accomplished dance champion than a doctor or a nurse . Larindas accomplishments are even more exceptional as much fewer men do competitive ballroom. We can grouse about costs if we wish. But he market is the market

 

[JudeMorrigan]

Musings:

I said earlier in the thread (back before it was brought back to life) that while I wasn't certain that pro-am was a sport for the wealthy, it was certainly a sport for the comfortably well-off. I stand by that. One certainly doesn't need to be Warren Buffet to dance it, but one really does kind of need to be better off than the average-income American.

But as one who I suspect is on the lower end of the "comfortably well-off" category, I still feel lucky to be able to do it at all. Larinda focused on how much non-billable time goes into preparing for a competition. That's all true, but I think it's also important to keep in mind who some of these people are. You can go to any major pro-am competition and see people who are literally among the best dancers on the planet dancing with their students. I mean, I know Larinda was a national finalist. (Forgive me, I don't know exactly where you topped out at.) That means competing with her would have been kind of like ... hiring Tim Duncan to play 2-on-2 basketball with.

Now, obviously not every pro-am instructor is on her level. But there are an awful lot who are at least "NBA-level" dancers. That's kind of nuts if you think about it. M4S is absolute right that the market is what the market is. But I think there are some senses at least where the top dancers' time is, if anything, undervalued. We're probably pretty lucky that dancesport is as unpopular as it is in the general population.

 

[debmc]

I wasn't saying other professions don't work for their money. You simply made the statement that I made 3k for "just a minute of work". .

Omg! I never said that! I said the average pro is charging from $500 to $1500 per dance style. It usually includes a couple of rounds and a scholarship. If they have three students per day they are easily making $3000 per day for dancing a few minutes here and there in different rounds.

Each dance runs about a minute. So a round of single dances and a scholarship is a few minutes. This is what I said.I get what you are saying about other things you have to do for a comp.

 

[rels77]

I think it's also going to make a difference that we'll have individuals going forward who have grown up with the internet and google and are accustomed to having any and all information at their fingertips that they could possibly want.

Here's my first post... I haven't been dancing long, but from the beginning it drives me CRAZY that we can't do online forms for comps and pay online. We can't register for lessons with teachers online, that people are actually scoring on paper at comps, that there isn't a display at every comp saying what heat it is, who's called back, what one is coming next. I mean, filling out paper forms and mailing them with checks?!?! Writing on whiteboards when there's a full screen display possible in a ballroom? The amount of time that is wasted by pros, organizers, etc. by not utilizing technology is astounding. And that extra time translates into money. Mailing full color expensive brochures instead of email? or not using email to directly market events to students? craziness!

I'm in my mid 30s and I know I'm on the low end of age ranges for people who compete a decent amount (about 8 comps or so last year) But it's 2015. Perhaps technology isn't embraced so people can be kept in the dark. Or some people are so stuck in their ways that they won't change... but I'd be more inclined to go to a a comp where I knew these things were in place.

 

[IndyLady]

Here's my first post... I haven't been dancing long, but from the beginning it drives me CRAZY that we can't do online forms for comps and pay online. We can't register for lessons with teachers online, that people are actually scoring on paper at comps, that there isn't a display at every comp saying what heat it is, who's called back, what one is coming next. I mean, filling out paper forms and mailing them with checks?!?! Writing on whiteboards when there's a full screen display possible in a ballroom? The amount of time that is wasted by pros, organizers, etc. by not utilizing technology is astounding. And that extra time translates into money. Mailing full color expensive brochures instead of email? or not using email to directly market events to students? craziness!

I'm in my mid 30s and I know I'm on the low end of age ranges for people who compete a decent amount (about 8 comps or so last year) But it's 2015. Perhaps technology isn't embraced so people can be kept in the dark. Or some people are so stuck in their ways that they won't change... but I'd be more inclined to go to a a comp where I knew these things were in place.

And don't get me started on using paper for tracking lessons and scheduling... receptionist flipping through 7 pages to see if the instructor has a different timeslot open a week from now, erasing/marking on the paper schedule, etc. I keep a spreadsheet to track my lessons - it is unbelievable how many errors I've had to call to their attention (lessons not reported, lessons that were cancelled in time or moved but somehow deducted anyways, inability to correctly add/subtract...). Come on folks, the salon where I get my brows waxed has electronic scheduling and knows how many services I have left in that discount bundle with a click of the button/mouse.... dance studios might consider joining the 21st century too. I'd like to be able to check my lesson status online the same way I check my bank account balance/transactions. I have yet to set foot in a studio that uses a computer to schedule or track lessons.

 

[danceronice]

And don't get me started on using paper for tracking lessons and scheduling... receptionist flipping through 7 pages to see if the instructor has a different timeslot open a week from now, erasing/marking on the paper schedule, etc. I keep a spreadsheet to track my lessons - it is unbelievable how many errors I've had to call to their attention (lessons not reported, lessons that were cancelled in time or moved but somehow deducted anyways, inability to correctly add/subtract...). Come on folks, the salon where I get my brows waxed has electronic scheduling and knows how many services I have left in that discount bundle with a click of the button/mouse.... dance studios might consider joining the 21st century too. I'd like to be able to check my lesson status online the same way I check my bank account balance/transactions. I have yet to set foot in a studio that uses a computer to schedule or track lessons.

SuperShag had a computer system since before I started. For how many lessons you'd bought/used, we kept a paper backup just in case, though, which came in handy more than once. Studio here has JUST started with the computer, though still no way for students to access it remotely. They've also just switched from live-person calls to automated texts as lesson reminders (either works for me.)

 

[Mr 4 styles]

If you need a lesson reminder....

 

[stash]

For some of us (coughthoseofuswithADDcough), reminders about anything are useful.

 

[IndyLady]

If you need a lesson reminder....

My studio did have e-mail reminders for a while, but they quit doing it a while back.

The nice thing about reminders is that it gives me reassurance that the studio actually has me on the schedule when I think they should. *I* know I have a 6:00 lesson on Monday... do they agree? Especially when standings are re-scheduled to a different timeslot that week, or an additional lesson is added in. Because keep in mind, we're dealing with paper schedules here, and unfortunately it's not just the receptionist that can make entries, pretty much any instructor can. Too many cooks and all...

 

[debmc]

I never forget a lesson! It's one of the highlights of my week!

 

[Mr 4 styles]

Me too!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Loki]

Here's my first post... I haven't been dancing long, but from the beginning it drives me CRAZY that we can't do online forms for comps and pay online. We can't register for lessons with teachers online, that people are actually scoring on paper at comps, [...]!

I'm in my mid 30s and I know I'm on the low end of age ranges for people who compete a decent amount (about 8 comps or so last year) But it's 2015. Perhaps technology isn't embraced so people can be kept in the dark. Or some people are so stuck in their ways that they won't change...

Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity. Seriously, using technology requires a time investment (learning curve) and a cash investment. Business-savvy studios, etc will look at ROI for technology (or anything else). While some are undoubtably scammers, some might not see the tech as worth it or affordable at this point. And some might be Daubers.

I agree with you in principle though. I'd go paperless for everything except for vital back-up records (Whatcha gonna do when the DPRK hacks the Cloud?) and do all my transactions online if I could.

 

[Dancing Irishman]

Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity. Seriously, using technology requires a time investment (learning curve) and a cash investment. Business-savvy studios, etc will look at ROI for technology (or anything else). While some are undoubtably scammers, some might not see the tech as worth it or affordable at this point. And some might be Daubers.

I agree with you in principle though. I'd go paperless for everything except for vital back-up records (Whatcha gonna do when the DPRK hacks the Cloud?) and do all my transactions online if I could.

Also, not all technologies have a monetary benefit. Taking credit cards, for example, requires the merchant to pay interchange fees on the credit card transactions.

And not all dance teachers are equally tech savvy. My latin coach is lucky to have a significant other who handles the website, electronic payments, and bookkeeping (because he would *hate* doing it).