Is Pro Am becoming a sport of only the wealthy?

[joedance]

Fine... and lenders have mark ups. Quite hefty ones sometimes!

I need this amount by mm/dd to cover comp fees. I'd be happy to cover the costs until after the competition, but I do charge a $50 fee since have to cover the expense out of my own funds. Let me know what works best for you.

As a first time customer / student of mine, I do require a 50% payment up front but as we do more business in the future, I am willing to be much more flexible on payment schedules.

It almost seems to me and I don't mean this in a negative way at anyone in particular but rather in aggregate based on personal experience, dance pro's aren't generally taught how to operate as a contractor. It seems to be something they learn on their own. The AM's and FA's appear to teach sales techniques, but not how to operate as a service provider.

 

[Cal]

I will always want to do my own entries. And for the amount of money the organizer better be thrilled to get my single check I simply know that if I do the entries they will be right and my requests honored.

And I go and get a cashier's check, too. I don't expect the organizer to take my personal check. None of them have ever returned it to me saying that it isn't good enough.

 

[Dancing Irishman]

I like to see a breakdown because the chickypoo in the office (an accountant by training) cannot do the math, even in Excel. She cannot multiply, she cannot add, and she once blithely handed me an invoice with $2k for makeup. I trust my pro, but I do NOT trust her AT ALL. She isn't even embarrassed by the mistakes. So unprofessional.

Accountant by training who can't handle Excel math? *cringe* That's supposed to be what they're best at.

 

[Cal]

Fine... and lenders have mark ups. Quite hefty ones sometimes!

Sure - but then CALL it that: a "lender fee".
I'd also think that just because you enter into a loan agreement with one student, it doesn't mean that you get to start adding lender's charges to other students who don't require loans.
Maybe "truth-in-lending" laws apply mainly to big commercial lenders, but ... gee, I still think if I were lending to someone I'd want to be really clear and up-front about what any related fees were for.

 

[Mr 4 styles]

Lol true dat cal. Tho cal open took my personal check. But she knows me sooooo

 

[fascination]

Actually, many students ARE saying that. Perhaps not YOU.... I sit in studios all day, every day, all over the country. You should hear what gets said...

really?...I don't mean to question you....I just find that to be astonishing...most of the pro am dancers I know are far more likely to empty their IRAs, face marital discord, forego vacations, than say no to their hallowed pro and they spend long hours trying to figure out how to NOT disappoint them....I have never ever run across anyone disrespectiing/demeaning their pro over income.... but I get that my 4-8 lessons a week over the decade and only in Indiana are not as expansive a sample as what you experience, but I still have never seen anything close to it.....

I have seen people argue with their pro over having to say no simply because they don't have money to do it while the pro continues to try to find ways to convince them that they should try, but not over the pro's essential worth...and I have also seen people who simply thought it was too much money to sink into a hobby in general....not an unreasonable question for anyone

 

[fascination]

In reality this IS how it is supposed to go. Organizers HATE receiving checks from PASDs. They expect one big check from the studio, not 6 checks all coming in at different times from different people, but expecting to be considered a group.

I pay the organizer. And I have to say that I WILL pay on time, even though my students often never paid me until the week before or after. So in that respect, I do bear the risk of reselling something that may, in the end, not bet purchased after all.

but this goes both ways because I have known pros who have never been able to produce accurate paperwork or get a check in before they arrive.....that being said, I am more than happy to pay the pro for the organizer costs

 

[fascination]

And I go and get a cashier's check, too. I don't expect the organizer to take my personal check. None of them have ever returned it to me saying that it isn't good enough.

I have sent Sam a cashiers check for the past .....7? ...years except last year when I didn't dance the comp...I get that organizers may not like it...but I didn't suggest that scenario...that in fact was my pro's insistance...and I was fine with it though it was a pain

 

[jump'n'jive]

I personally just avoid the money through me and straight to the organizer for tax reasons. I also will not accept credit card for comps or showcases. Must be cash or check.

 

[Loki]

You can always get the comps pricing. Just email the organizer and tell them you handle your own entries.

Sidenote: I emailed a comp requesting pricing and the organizers sent me a full list of wholesale package and heat prices. Quite transparent and that's one I will definitely support as much as I can.

 

[fascination]

first pro the check was written to him....only him...didn't go well (transparent pricing, he did entries most of the time...sometimes went well sometimes didn't)
second pro; always separate checks, worked fine (we both worked the entries but he would fill them out and send them in...worked great)
third pro; haven't competed yet, sounds like I will write one check, and he will fill out the entries seems like it will be just fine

 

[Loki]

I like to see a breakdown because the chickypoo in the office (an accountant by training) cannot do the math, even in Excel. She cannot multiply, she cannot add, and she once blithely handed me an invoice with $2k for makeup. I trust my pro, but I do NOT trust her AT ALL. She isn't even embarrassed by the mistakes. So unprofessional.

This person is most certainly NOT an accountant. She probably took a couple of bookkeeping classes in high school or at the coco and fancies herself an accountant. She's a bookkeeper - maybe. But she probably works for cheap, so...

 

[Mr 4 styles]

It's your money!!! Why trust anyone else to handle it if you can do it yourself. Well unless you suck moe at math ....

 

[Mr 4 styles]

My pros are all independents so they love that I handle the paperwork. All they do is tell me their charges. And show up and dance!!

 

[IndyLady]

really?...I don't mean to question you....I just find that to be astonishing...most of the pro am dancers I know are far more likely to empty their IRAs, face marital discord, forego vacations, than say no to their hallowed pro and they spend long hours trying to figure out how to NOT disappoint them....I have never ever run across it.... but I get that my 4-8 lessons a week over the decade and only in Indiana are not as expansive a sample as what you experience, but I still have never seen anything close to it.....

I have seen people argue with their pro over having to say no simply because they don't have money to do it while the pro finds ways to convince them that they should try, but not over the pro's essential worth...and I have seen people who simply thought it was too much money to sink into a hobby in general....not an unreasonable question for anyone

Yes, this is what I have observed as well (not surprising, since I'm in the location referenced here...). People trying every last trick in the book to keep on dancing in spite of the budget strain. I've known people who went into severe credit card debt, one lady (professional by day) who took a second job in the evenings at a big box store so she could keep dancing, people who just break for a while so they can recover financially, etc etc.

And yes, more often than not, around here it is the pros/instructors pressuring students to do stuff, even if it is a financial stretch. There are a handful of us who are much more "stand your ground" types regarding our money... we know who we are, we tend to hang out together.... and we don't get nearly as much crap in the back office as some of our fellow students.