Just got the oddest comment ...

SalsaManiac

SalsaManiac

New Member
So I finally got the sister of one of my salsa buddies on the dance floor and in the middle of a merengue, she tells me that I need to be forceful when dancing. Frankly, it took me a few seconds to pick my jaw off the floor when I heard that. She is somewhat of a beginner and I had to explain a few points to her:

1) Salsa to me is not about powering your way through moves. I consider salsa to be something like a conversation between the two of us where we both have contributions to make. If I am going to be forceful with the girl, that is like me shouting all the time and simply drowning out any personality/individuality that she has to bring to the dance.

2) Many beginner follows unfortunately tend to dance a lot with guys whose idea of dancing is ripping your arms out of their sockets. This becomes a vicious cycle because they now get the idea that being thrown around is the "right" way to dance and then attempt to backlead by adding extra inertia when it's not called for. Case in point: there was a lady I danced with a couple of weeks ago who felt that she needed to physically ground herself while I am leading her into a cross body lead. It was even worse when I tried to do a barrel roll with her and she would yank me off balance. One of the most advanced dancers here danced with her and when it was over, he came up to me and said that he now needed a neckbrace.

3) I have developed my lead such that I am a light lead but will be firm when I have to be in controlling the lady's motion. I have received so many comments on how enjoyable my lead is because the follows feel that they can express themselves more with me. I even had a friend tell me that I have thoroughly spoiled her with my lead because she is now really starting to realize that most guys do hurt her when they dance with her.

Anyway, I suppose I can understand why she would want to be led forcefully if she is a beginner and simply wants the guy to do everything for her. However, I do not want her pick up bad habits which seem to be so prevalent. Anyone else here have a similar experience?

--T

p.s: here is a funny link with some of the above stereotypes

http://www.tosalsa.com/goto.asp?http://www.tosalsa.com/forum/comic/comicSalsaSafari.html
 
She refused to believe that one could dance with a light lead, which is why she was insistent on the guy throwing her around. If she had said that she personally prefers to be thrown around, then the point would be moot.

--T
 
Funny/sad story about that. Married couple, she dances, he doesn't. She "sends" him to take lessons to learn to dance with her. He starts developing a nice, light but clear lead. Turns out she "learned on the floor" and wants a brutal lead. She comes to a few of his lessons. To her shock, the teacher starts correcting her! She stops coming to lessons. Soon, he disappears from the studio.
 
Lots of beginners want that "move me around the floor" sort of adnce. Unfortunate, but true. :-(
 
waltzgirl said:
Funny/sad story about that. Married couple, she dances, he doesn't. She "sends" him to take lessons to learn to dance with her. He starts developing a nice, light but clear lead. Turns out she "learned on the floor" and wants a brutal lead. She comes to a few of his lessons. To her shock, the teacher starts correcting her! She stops coming to lessons. Soon, he disappears from the studio.
Click to expand...

Yikes. :?

T_E
 
Yah I used to run into that a lot when I was a beginner. All the girls in my beginner classes wanted a more forceful lead. But it's really because they are "heavy" follows themselves. I personally hate dancing with followers who want me to physically move them everywhere. Instead of being more forceful trying giving her very very clear signals that even she cant miss.

For example, on a right outside turn try a bigger prep than usual..also you can use your right hand to gently push on her elbow on 5(assuming you dance on1). Overall make your visual and physical cues bigger and sooner.

Other than that there's not that can be done. It doesn't matter how good a lead you are, if she doesn't have good tension it's going to be a hard dance.
 
Tony_Salvi said:
Yah I used to run into that a lot when I was a beginner. All the girls in my beginner classes wanted a more forceful lead. But it's really because they are "heavy" follows themselves. I personally hate dancing with followers who want me to physically move them everywhere. Instead of being more forceful trying giving her very very clear signals that even she cant miss.
Click to expand...

Very good advice, IMO, Tony Salvi. :D
 
SalsaManiac,

Since the girl is a beginner, it's very possible that what you said is true, that she is simply heavy and needs/expects a crane to move her around the floor. This is likely the case.

But, just to play devil's advocate, and since she's not her to give her side of the story...

After I had been dancing salsa for about a year, my lead was, I felt, very good. And it wasn't bad... but... it wasn't as good as I thought, as I later learned, and this was true even though I got many compliments from followers. My lead was light, and at times during the dance, it dropped off to being too light and unclear. A good lead should be very consistent--the connection should not fluctuate during the song, though of course the amount of pressure should vary. So, are you sure that your lead is not only light but very clear? Light alone is not enough, and I've seen some guys try to be so light and "smooth" that they wind up giving ambiguous leads and confusing their followers. In fact, of all the guys I've been led by in group classes and private lessons (probably about three hundred over the last year), probably around 80% of them who have been dancing under 8 or 9 months have the problem of being too light and not clear/assertive enough in their leads (and I say this being a light follow, for a 180 lb. guy :wink: ). So, all I'm saying is, consider the possibility that your lead may not be clear. How long have you been dancing, and how many dances? The longer the amount of time, and the more dances you dance, the better your lead will be. Note that people who have been dancing several dances for many years still work on and improve their lead.

Another thing to consider is that a good lead will always do his best to accomodate the follower. If she was heavy and needed a stronger lead, you should not have tried to lead her with a light lead. She's not advanced enough for it. Be adaptable and work with the follower you are dancing with at the time and what she needs and where she's at, not what she should need and where she will be.
 
Josh said:
SalsaManiac,

Since the girl is a beginner, it's very possible that what you said is true, that she is simply heavy and needs/expects a crane to move her around the floor. This is likely the case.

But, just to play devil's advocate, and since she's not her to give her side of the story...

After I had been dancing salsa for about a year, my lead was, I felt, very good. And it wasn't bad... but... it wasn't as good as I thought, as I later learned, and this was true even though I got many compliments from followers. My lead was light, and at times during the dance, it dropped off to being too light and unclear. A good lead should be very consistent--the connection should not fluctuate during the song, though of course the amount of pressure should vary. So, are you sure that your lead is not only light but very clear? Light alone is not enough, and I've seen some guys try to be so light and "smooth" that they wind up giving ambiguous leads and confusing their followers. In fact, of all the guys I've been led by in group classes and private lessons (probably about three hundred over the last year), probably around 80% of them who have been dancing under 8 or 9 months have the problem of being too light and not clear/assertive enough in their leads (and I say this being a light follow, for a 180 lb. guy :wink: ). So, all I'm saying is, consider the possibility that your lead may not be clear. How long have you been dancing, and how many dances? The longer the amount of time, and the more dances you dance, the better your lead will be. Note that people who have been dancing several dances for many years still work on and improve their lead.

Another thing to consider is that a good lead will always do his best to accomodate the follower. If she was heavy and needed a stronger lead, you should not have tried to lead her with a light lead. She's not advanced enough for it. Be adaptable and work with the follower you are dancing with at the time and what she needs and where she's at, not what she should need and where she will be.
Click to expand...
Josh-
Interesting that you bring this up. There's a guy that I know (who shall remain nameless) who had precisely the same problem. One of my instructors places a huge emphasis on lack of arm tension (for followers) and a light lead (for leaders). This is a tough balance-I usually swing in the direction of too much tension (even now) but I'm a lot better than I used to be. But the guy that I'm talking about (after starting with my instructor) had this incredibly light, unclear lead at times because he was soooo focused on being 'light' and 'smooth'. I thought I was the only one who thought this, until my friends confirmed my opinion. He was so focused on being 'cool' that he seemed to forget what was the most important--that the follow understand what was going on.
 
waltzgirl said:
Funny/sad story about that. Married couple, she dances, he doesn't. She "sends" him to take lessons to learn to dance with her. He starts developing a nice, light but clear lead. Turns out she "learned on the floor" and wants a brutal lead. She comes to a few of his lessons. To her shock, the teacher starts correcting her! She stops coming to lessons. Soon, he disappears from the studio.
Click to expand...
This is tragic!
 
If the lady likes it hard, she gets it hard.

The only problem is that it can harden up your lead for when you dance with your lighter partners.

I've found variations in this. People who dance flashy, club style tend to be specific about the lightness and technique of the lead they like
, whereas many South Americans in Britain seem to prefer a bit more manhandling and less flash, I think of it as more "folky". Brits who dance "cuban" style tend to prefer a larger, firmer lead. I guess in the latter two cases there is less structure to the dance so it's more important to constrain your follower to the space you want to be occupying. Or maybe not, dunno.
 
sweavo said:
If the lady likes it hard, she gets it hard.
Click to expand...

:raisebro:

sweavo said:
The only problem is that it can harden up your lead for when you dance with your lighter partners.
Click to expand...

Hmm, yes. I've observed this with a regular partner of mine. His lead is always much 'harder' after he's danced a while with specific women here. It kinda throws me for a bit, because I am used to him being a light but clear lead...and I'm just honestly not particularly good at responding to and cleanly following a rough lead. Makes my following go kinda pear-shaped, every time; probably because I'm spending the whole dance wondering at all the unexpected and unnecessary force.
 
Kali Ma said:
It kinda throws me for a bit, because I am used to him being a light but clear lead...and I'm just honestly not particularly good at responding to and cleanly following a rough lead. Makes my following go kinda pear-shaped, every time; probably because I'm spending the whole dance wondering at all the unexpected and unnecessary force.
Click to expand...

Yeah, one of my favourite follows gets frightened by a strong lead and tenses up, her following falls apart and my instinct is to lead her stronger. It wasn't until we'd been dancing about 4 years that she mentioned this and I learned to spot it and lighten up again
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Dance Ads

Advertise on Dance Forums Reach dancers, teachers, studios, event organizers, and dance-friendly brands. View ad options
Back
Top