Just got the oddest comment ...

danzur said:
When I feel a lead or a follow being too forcefull or not pulling their own I show them that they are being forceful... ***Example: A follow is being really heavy with her arm - laying it on mine and not holding it up on her own. I drop my arm, which makes her arm drop.***
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How do you show a lead he is being too forceful?

I had a dance last night with a lead who acted like he was operating heavy machinery. He was making huge, open, stiff-armed motions to push me around the floor. (He also had terrible body motion, very uncomfortable). I basically just tried to follow as I normally would have, but I was praying for the song to end. (He might have thought it was a great dance though, because he gave me a high-five at the end?!)

Anyway, what can a follow do to tell her lead he is being too forceful? Short of saying so of course.
 
noobster said:
How do you show a lead he is being too forceful?

I had a dance last night with a lead who acted like he was operating heavy machinery. He was making huge, open, stiff-armed motions to push me around the floor. (He also had terrible body motion, very uncomfortable). I basically just tried to follow as I normally would have, but I was praying for the song to end. (He might have thought it was a great dance though, because he gave me a high-five at the end?!)

Anyway, what can a follow do to tell her lead he is being too forceful? Short of saying so of course.
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Why can't you just be honest?
 
Catarina said:
It seems like the bottom line is that if a "light" lead is dancing with a "light" follow, they'll be in synch, and will dance easily together, but if a "heavy" lead or follow is dancing with a light follow or lead, it's going to be difficult for either one.
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*grin* While I'll agree with that to some degree, it's as often the heavy followers who seem to really enjoy the dances more often.
 
atk said:
*grin* While I'll agree with that to some degree, it's as often the heavy followers who seem to really enjoy the dances more often.
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LOL - the truism is that the worse dancer always has the most fun, since they are dancing 'up'...
 
noobster said:
Anyway, what can a follow do to tell her lead he is being too forceful? Short of saying so of course.
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How I tell my leads they are being forceful is by telling them physically and verbally if they question or don't understand what I am trying to say physically. E.g. When a lead is pushing hard/constantly my right hand/arm when we are in a closed position lead I push right back. If they look at me funny I release my hand from theirs and say "You are pushing so hard that I have to fight back! My arm and shoulder are tired/sore."
 
englezul said:
I think you had the distinguished pleasure of dancing with Borat.
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ROTFLMAO! That is actually a pretty good description of what it was like (and not just the high-five part).

Originally posted by PasoDancer, danzur
Plow them right back. Turn to concrete.
When a lead is pushing hard/constantly my right hand/arm when we are in a closed position lead I push right back.
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Is this strategy intended to save me from pain, or to show the leader he is pushing too hard?

It's actually a tactic I've used in the past; it's never been successful. I think it actually makes the dance more painful for me rather than less (last night I just tried to maintain a flexible follow, and I think that was less painful than resisting). And in terms of what it communicated to the leaders, well, what they tended to do was just increase their own tension/force even further, rather than decrease it.

Saludas' suggestion about being honest was interesting. I prefer not to talk when dancing, and I never give verbal instructions (and not just because I'm a not-very-advanced follower). This is because getting verbal instructions from others always stresses me out and ruins my dancing; and I prefer not to inflict that experience on others. But I think if there was ever a time to try it, last night would have been it.
 
A request is not an instruction. Sometimes, if I don't want to offend someone, I'll say something like "Could you lighten your lead a little? I have a sensitive shoulder." (Yeah, it's sensitive to being yanked out of the socket!)
 
I also said I would tell them that they are pushing too hard. Another tactic that I have used is releasing my pressure so that their hand keeps going - kind of like when I drop my arm and the follow's arm falls too. Or maybe I just get my point across better to them because they know I am a teacher? I try to make sure that I say things in a positive light and in a positive tone. I don't want people getting angry/upset. It's not worth it. Dancing is fun and that's what I like to enforce! ;D
 
sweavo said:
If the lady likes it hard, she gets it hard.

The only problem is that it can harden up your lead for when you dance with your lighter partners.
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Agree!

Having the light clear lead, give the possibility to turn up to a hard clear lead. As I prefer the light clear lead, this is where I start, and this way I won’t start by putting the lady in the hard lead response, if she is the light type.

It have taken some time to realize there’s some ladies that sometimes need a really hard macho “I’m in charge lead”, getting close to a wrestling match for control. They don’t even have to be beginners. Give them what they like, and limit the moves to what will work for this dance. (As always)

As a lead it’s my responsibility she’s safe and having a good time.
 
Danish Guy said:
Agree!

Having the light clear lead, give the possibility to turn up to a hard clear lead. As I prefer the light clear lead, this is where I start, and this way I won’t start by putting the lady in the hard lead response, if she is the light type.

It have taken some time to realize there’s some ladies that sometimes need a really hard macho “I’m in charge lead”, getting close to a wrestling match for control. They don’t even have to be beginners. Give them what they like, and limit the moves to what will work for this dance. (As always)

As a lead it’s my responsibility she’s safe and having a good time.
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I agree with 'safe and having a good time', but I disagree about 'giving them what they like'.. You should never compromise the quality of your dancing, esp as leader. You are doing a disservice to the follow, since then they will NEVER get a better quality lead from you. IMHO, they should dance UP to your level. "Hard' follows require lower level movement (simpler steps etc), since they need to learn sensitivity. Let them figure out why the better dancers feel light and fast....
 
saludas said:
I agree with 'safe and having a good time', but I disagree about 'giving them what they like'.. You should never compromise the quality of your dancing, esp as leader. You are doing a disservice to the follow, since then they will NEVER get a better quality lead from you. IMHO, they should dance UP to your level. "Hard' follows require lower level movement (simpler steps etc), since they need to learn sensitivity. Let them figure out why the better dancers feel light and fast....
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Isn't this thread about social dancing? :? In that context, to me, then the primary "quality" in issue is maximizing the level of my partner's enjoyment. However, it sounds like you're more concerned with the type of "quality" that refers to either the consistency of the dance with some (undefined) standard or the appearance of the dance to onlookers.

Unless I'm dancing with someone whom I know is interested in practicing and/or learning new things during a social dance, then I'll err on the side of leading my partner in a manner closer to her preferred style, rather than mine.

This discussion seems to be based on a premise where the leader is more skilled than the follower, so, if we say the leader is at grade A and the follower is at level B, then I wouldn't go all the way down to B, but I probably wouldn't lead up her past B+, either. If I don't look my best to onlookers, so be it. That's just part of the compromise necessary for social dancing, in my opinion. Letting the follower struggle to keep up with A or A- (and simply hoping that she figures out what she did wrong after the dance is over :roll: ), seems counterproductive to me. If her preferred style/execution is too unpleasant for me, then I just won't invite her again, or I have the option of turning down her invitation to me in the future. In any event, the "zero compromise" position would seem to lead to a lot of unpleasant dances for everybody.
 
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