Leaders. How was your Tango journey?

[ArbeeNYC]

Social AT isn't homogeneous, however much there are claims to a compliance to common tradition

Yes but most of us are familiar with its history and traditions and know how it's danced. There's quite a bit of common ground there. A dancer who comes in from out of town or goes to a new city to dance doesn't need to have the local history of tango's development explained to them in order to dance. It's just mirada-cabeceo-bailar. I've never understood this business of isolating tango into local pockets of difference. There are encuentros all over the world. They are, for the most part, the same in terms of how they work, aside from local language differences, etc.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Just an observation that, out of BsAs, we want quick results to be able to 'dance' and to go to that milonga, rather than to dance well with musicality. We don't want the pain and time. That's not our culture.

And there's the problem. Although, even out of B.A., plenty of people do follow that longer path.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Anyway, my two instructors both expressed a concern that if this pattern keeps up, nobody in tango will be an artist.

Are they training tango dancers or performers? They are different paths leading to different results for different purposes.

 

[Brummbaer]

And there's the problem. Although, even out of B.A., plenty of people do follow that longer path.

The problem is: what's the answer to the problem? We have people who, let's say, have taken a 'short cut', or a different style, or some 'fusion', or who think because they're good in one dance style, can readily dance in another.

There's no standardisation, and anyone can set up shop as an AT teacher - even Argentinians. Teachers choose a method to get results - for students and, financially, for themselves. Suggesting to someone who wishes to learn AT that: we have a 2-year starter exercise class and then you can consider the extra years courses extending vocabulary for dancing at a milonga isn't going to sell.

 

[pianistamediano]

There's already a distinct self-segregation in milongas. I'm not talking about elites/non-elites, styles, ages, et cetera. People who take tango seriously, for some definition of serious, and people who treat it as just another leisure activity. Almost everyone starts in the latter, but only a few who stay in tango and actively work to improve their tango even outside of milongas and prácticas and classes — I don't include people who just go to classes and workshops, because they're plebs and most of them are just class-goers — move to the former category. There is this sense of they just don't get it that separates the former from the latter. And it's telling how one group moves independently of the other, with only an occasional interaction.

 

[JournalInTime]

Are they training tango dancers or performers? They are different paths leading to different results for different purposes.

They are training social dancers specifically and explicitly. They view social dance as art, and their particular regret is that it has become rote and no longer art. The idea that performers "do art" and social dancers do not is precisely their complaint . . . in their view, that's the exact opposite of how tango was, and what's wrong with what it has become.

 

[Tango Distance]

California was the strictest in the USA. Then too tango had restarted in early to mid 2021 with numbers and mask restrictions. I don’t think we ever had any underground or clandestine tango or any other dancing during 2020. People did start dancing outdoors between the delta and omicron waves here. Only a small numbers took part as most people were being careful.

We weathered the quarantines at a California beach (if work forbids you to go in person, why not work by the beach?). While California was officially very strict, in practice things weren't as strict. These things happened at the height of the quarantines:

• Almost no one was wearing masks by the beach
• LAX and other airports remained open
• I was officially notified I may have been exposed to COVID -- two months after the fact!
• I was told a huge Milonga never stopped and kept going during the quarantines. Maybe they all wore masks?
• Outdoor music and dancing flourished at the beach -- there were at least 8 events/week.
• Multiple California politicians did flagrant violations of quarantines.
• Of the 4 California Milongas I track, 3 of them survived the quarantines, plus 2 new ones started.
• A major California festival has "recovered" to about 1/4 of its former glory.
• Another festival did well after COVID.

 

[opendoor]

They are training social dancers specifically and explicitly. They view social dance as art, and their particular regret is that it has become rote and no longer art. The idea that performers "do art" and social dancers do not is precisely their complaint . . . in their view, that's the exact opposite of how tango was, and what's wrong with what it has become.

Does this separation lead to the segregation of the milongas?

 

[Bailango]

Suggesting to someone who wishes to learn AT that: we have a 2-year starter exercise class and then you can consider the extra years courses extending vocabulary for dancing at a milonga isn't going to sell.

There is no one suggesting that is that more of a strawman?

 

[Bailango]

There's already a distinct self-segregation in milongas. I'm not talking about elites/non-elites, styles, ages, et cetera. People who take tango seriously, for some definition of serious, and people who treat it as just another leisure activity. Almost everyone starts in the latter, but only a few who stay in tango and actively work to improve their tango even outside of milongas and prácticas and classes — I don't include people who just go to classes and workshops, because they're plebs and most of them are just class-goers — move to the former category. There is this sense of they just don't get it that separates the former from the latter. And it's telling how one group moves independently of the other, with only an occasional interaction.

I some understand when you say independently and only occasional interaction. I haven’t seen that. Within a same clique you can have both types. At our milongas you have both types interacting. The latter vastly outnumber the former. That’s to be expected.

 

[opendoor]

...Suggesting to someone who wishes to learn AT that: we have a 2-year starter exercise class and then you can consider the extra years courses extending vocabulary for dancing at a milonga isn't going to sell.

I've already reported here that I first danced at milongas and only started my first tango classes after already dancing dancing tango for a year socially. I seem to remember that Bailango doubted that, right? But it worked. Back then I was looking for a salsa class and got lost at a milonga, and the people there didn't want to let me go again. Since I found tango to be so much easier than salsa, I stayed and learned tango by doing (much like the old milongueros did in the GA).

 

[Brummbaer]

I've already reported here that I first danced at milongas and only started my first tango classes after already dancing dancing tango for a year socially. I seem to remember that Bailango doubted that, right? But it worked. Back then I was looking for a salsa class and got lost at a milonga, and the people there didn't want to let me go again. Since I found tango to be so much easier than salsa, I stayed and learned tango by doing (much like the old milongueros did in the GA).

That was then; this is about now. We have the consequences of those early starts without adequate training (maybe).

We probably went to milongas too early without a good foundation. But if we hadn't, we'd have probably given up.

But maybe there's a question there about how many didn't learn social AT, even with high attrition rates, or were put off/gave up by poor dancers at the milonga. And perhaps a justification for those selective Encuentros?

 

[Brummbaer]

There is no one suggesting that is that more of a strawman?

No. It's not a strawman. Simply considering the amount of 'training' before that first milonga, and hopefully further milongas. Let's say the 'apprenticeship' model versus the 'fast' learn some figures.

I don't know how well the OP considers they dance, but obviously some concerns. And suggestions for improvement are essentially 'better' training, teaching, apprenticeship. Practically we sort of returned to 'apprenticeship', or similar exercises, after finding we could 'dance' social AT. I can't see teachers outside BsAs fully re-adopting that apprenticeship model. Insufficient numbers to make it a viable proposition. But I am interested in how we interest people in AT - teach them, and keep them. I see that 'apprenticeship' as initially more relevant to those where dancing is more than just recreation/leisure. But, as @pianistamediano has opined, it gives some segregation.

 

[pianistamediano]

I some understand when you say independently and only occasional interaction. I haven’t seen that. Within a same clique you can have both types. At our milongas you have both types interacting. The latter vastly outnumber the former. That’s to be expected.

YMMV! I move in both circles, being a marathon-goer and a person who has the desire to develop my own style and who actually finds constantly self-reflecting and improving fun, but I understand the perspective of the tango-as-leisure-activity dancer because they're my friends. But I'm more of the exception, because people don't accept me fully into their groups and I'm used to being nomadic anyway.

 

[opendoor]

...I move in both circles, being a marathon-goer and a person who has the desire to develop my own style...

I'm sorry you don't have a third circle. For me, in addition to the aspects you mentioned, it is also important to be part of social tango!