Leaders. How was your Tango journey?

[tangoing]

Depending on how quickly you are moving, five steps in advance, can be much longer than three seconds! Personally, I don't plan anything in advance.

Yeah or it can last under a second. I don’t usually plan anything longer than 3ish seconds in advance, but I do have a general sense of phrasing if the tempo or instruments change

 

[opendoor]

Perhaps it is simple to you, you said that salsa is harder than tango so maybe this dance is just quizzically easy to you?

Oh yes, I remember. Suddenly moving all the parts of my body independently of each other was very difficult for me. And I also had to pay attention to the styling of my hands and feet at the same time, and, above all, smile while doing all of it. All that was very difficult for me.
The only difference is that I was talking about myself and my problems. In your posts, however, you generally describe certain tango moves as difficult, even though they are beginner stuff. You don't say whether they are difficult for you personally, or for someone else. In such a case, we could find advice here.

 

[Rabbit]

Perhaps it is simple to you, you said that salsa is harder than tango so maybe this dance is just quizzically easy to you?

I also think it's easy from a physical point of view

 

[tangoing]

Oh yes, I remember. Suddenly moving all the parts of my body independently of each other was very difficult for me. And I also had to pay attention to the styling of my hands and feet at the same time, and, above all, smile while doing all of it. All that was very difficult for me.
The only difference is that I was talking about myself and my problems. In your posts, however, you generally describe certain tango moves as difficult, even though they are beginner stuff. You don't say whether they are difficult for you personally, or for someone else. In such a case, we could find advice here.

Well my post specifically was about the details of leading a quick quick slow - to do that generally you need to plan ahead a bit, you can’t just do 1 quick and then at the end decide to do another quick. You usually have to project, like the other post said, ahead of time. My whole point was you generally do need to think 1-2+ movements ahead of your current move for it to flow smoothly, and I don’t consider that choreographing.

 

[tangoing]

I also think it's easy from a physical point of view

Depends on the dancers style and quality of movement.
At its most basic, yes it’s easy since you’re just hugging someone and walking. But with the depth of how much this dance has (i.e people saying it takes years to master the walk), it’s not easier.

Salsa (along with a lot of other partner dances), as a lead I can go to maybe a dozen or so classes, learn a new sequence each time, and comfortably lead in a social dance by just mixing all the different sequences they teach you since they generally fit fine with the music.
Tango, as you all know, you can’t do that. Trying to just repeat random sequences wouldn’t make sense. There’s lots of improv and there’s not a “basic” you can fall back on besides maybe just pausing and shifting weight (and beginners wouldn’t consider that dancing)

 

[ArbeeNYC]

there’s not a “basic” you can fall back on besides maybe just pausing and shifting weight (and beginners wouldn’t consider that dancing)

You can get a lot of mileage out of a good tango walk. I've seen entire songs danced that way.

 

[tangoing]

You can get a lot of mileage out of a good tango walk. I've seen entire songs danced that way.

Yes except that would be boring to most beginners. Also good luck with that in crowded nyc milongas.

 

[opendoor]

..there’s not a “basic” you can fall back on besides maybe just pausing and shifting weight (and beginners wouldn’t consider that dancing)

(again) There is a misconception that tango is movement, figures and walking. The calm, the enjoyment, the subtlety, the stillness have been lost. And that is the result of bad teaching and bad teachers. A week ago yesterday I had a follower in my arm that I didn't know. The piece of music turned out to be quite dramatic. I waited for the right moment when music and movement could flow into one another. But I didn't succeed. She fidgeted ochos on the spot, tripping and couldn't calm down. I stopped the dance and explained to her that you can dance tango just standing still. Sometimes just raising and lowering the ribs is enough. Minimal rotations in the shoulder joints then map the violins. It was a kind of brainwashing that washed away the rubbish of two years tango classes. Then came level two: "And please don't wait for an impulse from me to come. I'll project your movements, you just have to allow it and let me control your body." Yesterday was the real test. In her words: "That was the first real tango of my life!"

 

[Gssh]

There’s lots of improv and there’s not a “basic” you can fall back on besides maybe just pausing and shifting weight (and beginners wouldn’t consider that dancing)

This is not true - beginners will consider this dancing if we tell them that it is dancing. If you structure your beginner class around walking and connection and give continuous feedback that that is the fundamental technique and that this is what we are looking for they are more than happy to work on this, and they will enjoy it. People like feeling like they are "really leading" / "really following" , and walk+pause is one of the easiest ways to get that feeling. (And it is also something that is more attractive to leaders and i suspect helps a lot with retention)

Non-beginners are in my experience more difficult - but when you model this in demos, and use it as the baseline for helping people when they try something they have seen on youtube it works. Always grounding vocabulary in walking/embrace technique leads people to appreciate it. When you show them how the fancy moves are usually amplified demonstrations of walking technique they understand. I typically find intermediate dancers the worst - their technique is a collection of shortcuts to create the look of standard vocabulary without using/developing the underlying body mechanics (or at least what i consider to be the underlying body mechanics), and they feel like they are much better dancers when using the shortcuts.

 

[tangoing]

(again) There is a misconception that tango is movement, figures and walking. The calm, the enjoyment, the subtlety, the stillness have been lost. And that is the result of bad teaching and bad teachers. A week ago yesterday I had a follower in my arm that I didn't know. The piece of music turned out to be quite dramatic. I waited for the right moment when music and movement could flow into one another. But I didn't succeed. She fidgeted ochos on the spot, tripping and couldn't calm down. I stopped the dance and explained to her that you can dance tango just standing still. Sometimes just raising and lowering the ribs is enough. Minimal rotations in the shoulder joints then map the violins. It was a kind of brainwashing that washed away the rubbish of two years tango classes. Then came level two: "And please don't wait for an impulse from me to come. I'll project your movements, you just have to allow it and let me control your body." Yesterday was the real test. In her words: "That was the first real tango of my life!"

I don’t understand, you were waiting for the moment in the music? Thought you said you don’t do choreography? And then you explained to her on the dance floor? Thought teaching at the milonga was frowned upon.

 

[Bailango]

On the other extreme a bad active follower will disrupt the conversation, i.e throwing badly timed boleos by herself just because she feels like it.

That is NOT active following!!

 

[Mr. Moustachio]

 

[tangoing]

This is not true - beginners will consider this dancing if we tell them that it is dancing. If you structure your beginner class around walking and connection and give continuous feedback that that is the fundamental technique and that this is what we are looking for they are more than happy to work on this, and they will enjoy it. People like feeling like they are "really leading" / "really following" , and walk+pause is one of the easiest ways to get that feeling. (And it is also something that is more attractive to leaders and i suspect helps a lot with retention)

Non-beginners are in my experience more difficult - but when you model this in demos, and use it as the baseline for helping people when they try something they have seen on youtube it works. Always grounding vocabulary in walking/embrace technique leads people to appreciate it. When you show them how the fancy moves are usually amplified demonstrations of walking technique they understand. I typically find intermediate dancers the worst - their technique is a collection of shortcuts to create the look of standard vocabulary without using/developing the underlying body mechanics (or at least what i consider to be the underlying body mechanics), and they feel like they are much better dancers when using the shortcuts.

Guess it depends on the students, I can see older ones being more acceptable to this idea. Whereas younger ones would probably be more interested in something that seems like “dancing” like the other social dances. Not to mention if the milongas are crowded there’s not really much walking you can do.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Yes except that would be boring to most beginners. Also good luck with that in crowded nyc milongas.

Not sure it would be boring for beginners given that they can't do it properly. Of course, for crowded milongas anywhere it's virtually impossible. It's a nice thing to save for a práctica though.

 

[opendoor]

I don’t understand, you were waiting for the moment in the music? Thought you said you don’t do choreography?

Exactly the other way around. If you want to improvise to unfamiliar music, you should not stumble unempathically onto the floor. Each piece of music introduces itself to the listener, and the music then invites you to react. This often happens at the end of a phrase.

...teaching at the milonga was frowned upon.

I followed these rules when I was an active tango dancer. Now I no longer feel bound by them. But I am still friendly when I criticize someone and I always give reasons and explain my reaction. I have to feel comfortable.